Hot take: Libertarians are the state’s most dedicated enemies and, in true Girardian fashion become its most faithful imitators.

Rene Girard observed that enemies often become mirror images of each other. The more fiercely they oppose, the more they mimic. The obsession breeds resemblance. This is the trap of mimetic rivalry: we become like the thing we hate.

Libertarians see the state as the ultimate enemy. But in their desire to escape or overthrow it, they begin to reflect its mindset. They study its structure, anticipate its moves, simulate its power in miniature. They build parallel institutions—private courts, private currencies, private defense—as if reconstructing the state from scratch, but with different branding.

Their deep paranoia, their obsession with sovereignty, even their fetish for rules (so long as they’re voluntary)—these are all echoes of the very system they claim to reject.

Like the revolutionary who dreams only of becoming the king he deposed, the libertarian is haunted by the shape of the state. He cannot stop thinking like it, preparing for it, becoming like it in opposition.

So yes—libertarians are closet statists. Not because they love the state, but because they hate it with such intensity that they’ve begun to mimic it.

The enemy has colonized their imagination.

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both are gnostic, trying to impose opposite hyper-realities onto reality itself.

the contradictions of libertarians have more subtle consequences than statists, but both are logically invalid and hurt real people

I mean, I just want to stack Sats and have a small farm to support my family. I don’t want to have to pay the state royalties for something I already own. I can’t find in between where I’m becoming the state in this example but I’ll assume there’s more extreme scenarios

My cat agrees with you, he says from his PoV I'm more like the state, than not like the state - "the person who controls the food printer & the door encroaches on his ability to operate voluntarily."

The horseshoe theory of statism—libertarianism

Jesus F Christ

Yeah nah

That’s some profound sh*t, Homeslice.

That does track with bizarre takes I’ve read from a few self-proclaimed libertarians.

Some pitch a what starts as a libertarian position that then transitions into something with a community/socialist bent.

That f*cks me up when i read those.

You’ve given me something to think on.

The state doesn’t think about libertarians

No but libertarians think about it

This but no

Man…pass the blunt fool.

Girard's conclusions were based on a false premise and a Red herring argument. He redefined libertarians in the context within a political frame. Mimetic rivalry doesnt exist in a libertarian framework.

His arguments are not what a libertarian would say, only what a statest would say that a libertarians would say...

Welcome to the struggle my friend. Glad you are here.

Girard never spoke about libertarians. I’m simply applying his memetic desire theory to libertarianism

And you probably shouldn't

But I did

Hahaha, I didn't say you didn't, I said you probably shouldn't.

Sounds like the makings of a Bob Dillian song.

#trivium

“They say that what you mock will surely overtake you, and you become a monster so the monster will not break you”

If you just love the state like a puppy dog loves his master that vaccinates him and rub his face in shit we all can live in harmony.

Kumbayah my Lord. Kumbayah

Now do crypto anarchists.

Is it just me or hodl’s takes are becoming kinda shit lately? 🤔

Which other one did you think was shit?

I definitely would concede that there folks who “identify” as libertarians but are really covert commies, the truth isn’t that libertarians want to recreate the state as you put it here.

The libertarian position as I understand it, is that no one organisation should have the monopoly of violence in a society or to put it better, rules without rulers, something bitcoin demonstrated to be possible. A decentralized governance model that doesn’t violate the natural rights of another individual and champions free markets. Based on this definition, most self proclaimed libertarians don’t make the cut and are just centre left democrats.

I was reading “librarians” until half way down the post and wondering what the hell…

I’m a libertarian and I’ll handle my life, you handle yours, and we’ll respect each other’s choices.

Libertarianism is a good north start on the map, but not the territory.

Interesting!

René Girard's mimetic theory asserts that enemies often become mirror images of each other due to mimetic rivalry—a process where competing parties unconsciously imitate each other’s desires and behaviors, escalating conflict. Key points include:

1. Mimetic Desire and Rivalry: Girard argues that human desire is imitative ("mimetic"), meaning we unconsciously adopt the desires of others. When two parties pursue the same object or status, rivalry intensifies, and they increasingly mirror each other’s actions and motivations. This imitation erodes perceived differences, making rivals "doubles" locked in reciprocal hostility.

2. Escalation to Violence: As rivals become more alike, conflict often spirals into violence. Girard describes this as a "metaphysical" struggle where each party seeks validation through the destruction of the other, whom they ironically resemble. The closer the relationship (e.g., siblings, ideological peers), the fiercer the rivalry.

3. Scapegoating as Resolution: To resolve crises, communities historically united by scapegoating a common enemy. However, Girard notes that scapegoats are falsely blamed, and their expulsion only temporarily restores peace. The underlying mimetic rivalry remains unresolved, perpetuating cycles of blame and violence.

4. Biblical Revelation: Girard contrasts archaic myths with biblical narratives, which he argues expose the scapegoat’s innocence. This undermines the efficacy of sacrificial violence, forcing humanity to confront its mimetic nature and seek nonviolent resolutions.

In summary, Girard’s framework posits that enemies mirror each other because desire itself is imitative, binding rivals in a destructive symmetry that only conscious awareness can dismantle.

<https://www.perplexity.ai/search/rene-girard-did-he-assert-that-jagJ7Ze9TnW3FWAa2bhCOA>

Hard truth: you can leave the system and still carry its mindset.

Freedom isn’t just exit….it’s exorcism.

Maybe it’s a lack of imagination or maybe social order has certain needs that have to be addressed and there are narrow means in which to address them.

For instance, security must be addressed with the capacity for force or the rights of the individual must be negotiated with those of the cohort.

Needs are the firmware. Wants are the software of living together.

We become social animals by mimicking one another and the form factor of that method is amoral. Like the unconscious.