if most nodes upgrade to core 30, and csam penetrates the blockchain, then csam will be preserved on knots. am i right?
Discussion
Yes
Yes, but at least Knots nodes won’t relay unconfirmed op returns with the rest of the network. Core 30 will.
Unconfirmed csam op returns*
This will not save us in court. From a criminal law perspective, we will be guilty of storing and distributing csam. The police will charge us with the following: We understood the socially dangerous nature of storing csam on a computer and distributing it online, we understood the socially dangerous nature of the consequences of our actions, but we did not turn off our nodes, thereby creating favorable conditions for the creators of csam to commit a crime. If you store and transport someone else's drugs in your car, it does not matter that you did not manufacture or sell them. You are already guilty as an accomplice, at the very least.
So things are even more serious than we thought.
i'm afraid so. i don't want to be alarmist because i don't understand the technical side of bitcoin. maybe i'm wrong. god forbid i'm wrong. otherwise the police will destroy all the nodes and bitcoin will die.
Unfortunately, you’re not wrong. I’ve been closely following this development since 2023. I tried seeing the other side’s arguments for its merits. Honestly, it doesn’t have much, if any.
and every #bitcoin_knots node becomes an unwitting accomplice of criminals, because it will be forced to store the csam that miners included in the blockchain, and will also be forced to distribute csam throughout the network. #bitcoin_core are headed straight to jail. for me, this is not a big problem, because they are adults and have the right to build their own future. but I care when bitcoin_core drags me and other bitcoin_knots owners to jail. as a lawyer, I see only one way to save myself: a hard fork. and the hard fork must happen before September 30th, so that the new branch cannot load csam that may appear after September 30th. I don’t see any other technical way to save myself and my node. and also. imagine if, in addition to child pornography, someone posts government secrets on the blockchain. imagine how quickly federal agents will come to our homes. i am not against a new Snowden. I am against him killing bitcoin.
You can’t expect to get support for a soft fork in under a month, let alone a hard fork. That’s a non-starter.
The only realistic path is Knots becoming the majority client (>50% of the network). That could happen before the end of September. If Knots takes that position, most pools will likely either switch or refuse to update Core past v29. Any pool that moves to v30 without curating the transactions in its templates essentially makes itself a willing solicitor for CSAM, opening the door to legal liability. Responsibility for CSAM on-chain ultimately rests with pools and miners and they have every incentive not to let it happen.
Imagine having to tell our kids:
We had this great opportunity to be free from the fiat criminal system that aligned banks and governments against us and made it able to control us and take our wealth, fund everlasting wars with it, and so on.
We didn't have to turn to violence to break this system, putting unimaginable numbers of human lives at stake, we only had to start using this new money, a system given to us for FREE....
"But daddy what happened ?"
Well we let it taken away from us since some thought it was nice to embed JPEG's and other bullshit onchain.....
And thats how shitcoiners do it.
I can't believe all the extremist views on something as stupid as this current OP_RETURN debate. It makes no sense to me. All this division about something that in the end does not really matter. I have no problem if you run core or knots or BTC_NODE.BAT but this, like everything else, will not be the turning point or even remotely the biggest problem we will face.
All this over dramatized stuff is much, much more toxic than anything core or knots can ever do wrong or make right for that matter.
Ur really super retarded if you think 100kb child porn pics all over the blockchain doesnt matter. The debate has become so emotionally charged because it is that retarded to think lightly about CHILD PORN.
Issues stack little by little. The rot is long and almost unnoticeable until it’s too late. First was the unintended consequences of SegWit and Taproot. The exploits were left to be exploited although fixes were available. The UTXO set exploded. Spam became normalised. Controversial changes were announced, the pushback was ignored. Heavy handed top-down approach is being pushed aggressively. Risks are being ignored, criticism is waved off as being not technical and ignorant. Failing to see the political creep and dismissing it as unimportant is how frogs are being boiled. Don’t be the frogs.
yeah, this is why this weekend i am gonna set up my node again and add my filter to the network :)
filters work. just ask the Gmail team.
🤙
It is more like a political tsunami than creep at this point. You may raise valid points, others may raise valid arguments against it.
Apparently the path of truth is somewhere in the middle. If it was totally obviously black or white there wouldn't be all these discussions. Everything will work for the foreseeable future no matter what you choose. Let everybody make their decision with the thousands of arguments at hand and let's move on to the next thing to tackle.
I think any problems arising from the outcome will teach people better than the endless drama and speculation of predicting the future, where people think their children will be disappointed that you could not convince people to switch to a different bitcoin node software.
Just spin up more nodes with your preferred software if you think it matters so much. It's not like there's a 1 node per person limit.
Drama is human nature. Human action determines outcomes. It’s not some mystical force that protects Bitcoin from failure.
If it doesn’t matter then why cause all this drama? Why not just keep it the way it is?
You know what you are doing. We see you.
🧡✨👍
@mike - you run a node. How do you feel about this?
nostr:npub1aqakd28d95muqlg6h6nwrvqq5925n354prayckr424k49vzjds4s0c237n
I’ve long since stopped engaging in the argument, but I wrote an article on my decision to run Knots here:
nostr:naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzp6pmv65w6tfhcp73404xuxcqpg24f8rf2z86f3v824td22c9ymptqqxnzde4xuergvfjx5urwvehyldpv2
What I will say is, I had to look up CSAM a few months ago when this was first mentioned. It’s child pornography.
If you can’t be direct and use the words you mean, then don't use them at all.
The argument has now progressed to an even lower low by using child pornography as a weapon.
Child pornography is a weapon of last resort, it is highly affective and can be weaponised by your enemies as easily as your friends. If an argument has to resort to this, it’s time to exit the argument.
what about project spartacus? classified documents are inscribed to bitcoin, without OP_RETURN. you know that, they know you know that. it is a crime legally speaking to store and propagate it.
I didn't know about that. Another problem.
i'm in the hardcore anti-spam camp. i don't think that the purpose of bitcoin is to be a forever replicated decentralized arbitrary data dump, and i don't think we should be incentivizing that use. i just totally disagree with the filter camp on what to do about it.
i think we should be going after the very motivation for inscribing garbage on chain. but sadly very few think like me.
Of course, your view of this problem is more fundamental. But we have too little time to solve the problem at the level of human nature, at the level of basic human motives.
the technical solutions are not too complicated. devs could code it all up in an afternoon if they wanted to.
art's the only data dump i'd replicate forever. pixels over politics. try placing one at https://ln.pixel.xx.kg and feel the freedom.
Hence it's not enough to just use Knots yourself, but the network as a whole must reject Core 30
yes, that's what i meant. if governments start arresting all bitcoin node holders as members of an international criminal organization, then they will paralyze bitcoin. every new node will automatically download the entire blockchain, and therefore all the csam nastiness. and every new node will be attacked by the police. we won't be able to support the network by launching new nodes, because the police will start hunting us. we need a hard fork. and we need to launch it before september 30th, so that it doesn't absorb csam.
He's preparing the ground for a hardfork if it's not already obvious.
that's nonsense because it's not a consensus that changes, it's mempool policy
it would be a soft fork at most if it was widely deployed, and that depends on a lot of nodes upgrading that probably won't because of other trade offs. so it isn't a hard fork, won't be a hard fork, and actually can't be a hard fork.
You have the capacity of a 12 yo, am i right?
In the chain, yes. In the memoool, no.