Syncing a Bitcoin node over Tor isn't feasible.
Operating a Lightning node over Tor is a pretty massive fail.
I'd love to see someone do a proof of concept of running Bitcoin & Lightning nodes on the Veilid network.
Discussion
It took me 3mths to sync over Tor.
But I was using a HDD not a SSDā¦
Holy shit, that is commitment
Would incentivizing help?
Canāt open channel š
You mean isn't feasible long term? I've synced several full nodes over Tor and sure it takes a week or so to complete but since these are supposed to be always on servers it doesn't seem a problem to me just to set the IBD going and forget.
Right, it's 2 orders of magnitude slower than syncing over clearnet. Not exactly a good user experience.
No route
What is Veilid network?
A few years back I would have agreed with you, nowadays with a contracted throughput above 300 Mbps over fiber, you can sync a Bitcoin Node in a about 7 days over TOR
Yup
I run both on Tor, and did my initial sync via Tor and I2P... sorry, I can't give you any useful advice here.
That said, I never heared of the Veilid network. If it supports TCP traffic, it *could* work. But you'll have to manually bind to it... That said, TCP is TCP, so, it could work, perhaps.
I run a node on tor. Works just fine
itās weird how many laser eyes say āisnāt feasibleā for things which already work, and āis inevitableā for things which arenāt.
There's a lot of BS out there..š§”šš½
Switching off Tor while using Zeus was like night and day.
I have done IBD for bitcoind with only Tor and I2P multiple times this year, donāt see problems. LN is different story, there latency matters more.
How is Veilid different/better than what we already have in Tor/I2P? And what stops it from having the same pitfalls?
Veilid supports UDP and doesn't have exit nodes, which makes it very much like I2P.
From https://mastodon.top/@lispi314/110873982436970994
"From a first look, it doesn't seem to provide any particular security/anonymity guarantees that #I2P doesn't.
It does however greatly facilitate ensuring leaks based on services hosted behind the same router can't happen, by essentially giving every application its own router.
Its main gains appear to be facilitation and convenience in modern networks."
There are also a lot of concerns about leaking info, which is to be expected. LizPi goes on to say https://mastodon.top/@lispi314/110874001616121495
"The #mixnet use is unclear and the lack of #Loopix-style loop messages seems like a potential problem for cover traffic.
Cover traffic is entirely unmentioned during the entirety of the slides.
It would be possible to build that atop of #Veilid of course.
There are no mentions of delays in messages nor any other manipulation to mitigate timing analysis.
If nodes select routes based on performance, that's an additional deanonymization risk (shared by #I2P)."
The bottom line is that it's new, and the people promoting it are very loud and good at getting media attention. The people I've seen post about it who did not develop it but looked at the code haven't had much good to say about it.
I haven't looked at it myself because I've been too busy with other projects. Namely fighting with SeedSigner's build environment to build an air gapped authentication system.
I synced a full node over TOR this year. Took days if I recall correctly
How badly would you love that? Would you fund a bounty?
What about Nostr notes on Veilid and even negentropy on Veilid?
nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s nostr:npub1yxprsscnjw2e6myxz73mmzvnqw5kvzd5ffjya9ecjypc5l0gvgksh8qud4
Tor is Tor. You can't have the cake and eat it too
That's why I use self-custodial wallets that run Tor servers, like Mycelium and Phoenix. For lightning, Blixt runs Tor
Just finished syncing my node over Tor. Seems feasible enough š
Wow that sounds so fucking cool. Exciting
my node is completely offline due to absence of Tor trafficš¤·
Syncing over Tor works just fine, just completed another sync myself with clearnet turned off.
LN over Tor works fine for a regular user, including me and everyone I know, pretty massive success. At its very worst it means that to make my payment privately I need to factor in 10 seconds of connecting via Tor before I can pay. No big deal.
Syncing a #Bitcoin node over Tor IS feasible. It takes longer but I have done it many times.
#LN node on Tor might be impractical but nothing wrong with running a standard node.
#lifehack note: add a HDD into the mix and get a lesson on Low Time Preference, for free.
Syncing a Bitcoin node over Tor is 100% feasible and many of us have done it, some of us for years now.
I see no reason a lightning node couldn't be served as a hidden service, but I haven't tried to run a lightning node yet.
Having said that, I have no objection to someone writing a guide, or better yet automation (ansible playbook, scripts, etc.) to set up a lightning node over I2P, gnunet, Veilid, or any other mixnet/overlay neteork.
My node uses tor and syncs just fine
I knew about Tor from its inception, but never used it. Now that I'm attempting to use it, I see it falling flat left and right. Since I have a background in software development, I know how much "free time" was spent making sure something so right could set an example for the rest of us. To see it gasping for breath is sad. I don't know enough details to provide answers, but there has to be a way of keeping this good juju going. Morphing it for the future would be a blessing to those that went this far.
I've only synced nodes over tor, and besides the fact that it takes a couple weeks, I had no issues. Why do you say it isn't feasible?
I am not sure about LN, but full index btc node over tor is pretty easy, I mean tor only node. I agree that tor has to be improved, but I thing that whole tcp concept is not good for privacy idea, idea of tcp streams where you want keep privacy on is bs.
I zapped you 1 sat over Tor (non-custodial) - took less than 3 sec.
My other node runs off an old thinkpad with Tor and VPN. Syncs just fine.
Not saying we shouldn't have other options, but "isn't feasible" and "massive fail" don't match my experience.