I'm falling into a monero rabbit hole
All the good privacy content out there always brings it up.
Discussion
Oh boy here come the maxis to call you a shitcoiner now.
Oh no I'm so scared 😰😂
Xmr is good for what it does.
Fast cheap on chain transactions, privacy focused.
I could on but.
You know what’s up.
Better privacy by default and lower fees, but merchant adoption for regular purchases doesn't seem nearly as good as Bitcoin. Maybe I'm misinformed on that tho
That kinda doesn’t matter anymore with atomic swaps.
Pls inform me ser
Atomic swaps enable two parties to exchange different cryptocurrencies without requiring a trustworthy intermediary
monero wallets are still complicated af.
Not any harder then using bitcoin on a desktop?
yeah, they are, i'm talking about the official reference wallet.
and the keys are nasty long.
I have no issues every using and desktop wallet software.
It’s as easy as copy, paste for me….
Been doing this for a while.
i am stickin with bitcoin and bitcoin has lightning and i build bitcoin stuff and honestly, not gonna be spending my money on dark web so coinjoins are enough for me.
Each to their own.
We’re all allowed opinions.
We’re all allowed to use whatever tools we see fit to have privacy.
There’s plenty of tools in the tool box to choose from.
Choose the right tool for the job.
Give us a breakdown on your thoughts when you get the chance
I keep flip flopping if there's a real use case for it or if it's better accomplished with a bitcoin layer
Sums up my thoughts about it perfectly 😅
It’s an unpegged layer 2 focused on privacy
With tail emission, its monetary policy won’t ever be as attractive for long term hoarding as Bitcoin, so I can’t see it replacing the neutral reserve asset of Bitcoin as a primary monetary layer
L1 - store of value
L2 - medium of exchange
Then don't use it to save if inflation less than gold worries you.
Spend it like cash. Problem solved.
L2 privacy can't ever be a full replacement for L1 privacy. You sacrifice a lot moving up to L2. Ecash is custodial and Liquid is permissioned. Lightning has too many problems to list.
That’s exactly what I said. I won’t use it to save, because Bitcoin is scarcer and more durable (harder to change the protocol). But if I need its privacy features I’ll use it.
I ran a monero node and used monero in like 2016-ish to break the link between my UTXOs and the exchanges (shapeshift btc->xmr --> xmr node --> xmr.to --> bitcoin --> cold storage). But now whirlpool does the trick for me. I have no idea why anyone would want to use xmr these days. With whirlpool and LN, being private isnt super hard with bitcoin.
It's pretty tough to get privacy as the merchant on ln still, and forget any amount bigger than a few thousand dollars... coinjoins require a lot of thought and precision and keeping track of utxos, monero just gives privacy right out of the box easily...
I can see it I think... esp for noobs
you nailed it....monero is easy.
BTC have solutions, but for advanced users only...how many will miss used the bad debt of the whirlpool or link LN channeled in 1tx.
what is actually missing in monero ?
Monero is missing network effects and backwards compatibility, which are huge imo
Yea, and the reality is that, if it were to have the network effect like bitcoin. The blockchain would grow so large that full nodes would be centralized and the chain be captured. There is no block size limit and monero transactions take more space. Monero is niche and has very specific uses.
"if it were to have the network effect like bitcoin..."
Any sharp increase in use would effect Bitcoin the same way in centralization. If Bitcoin took on 10x-100x txs right now it would also become near unusable in confirmation times and transaction fees (Not so for Monero). Hypotheticals are fun, but let's stick to reality. Monero's full blockchain size is 1/3rd the size of Bitcoin (easier to run a node) and it's blocksize is only 0.3MB and cannot grow beyond this without sufficient and sustained demand.
This is not some inevitability either. Gradual enough adoption and consumer tech advances over time mean none of what you say will happen.
None of what you said is true. I am so sick and tired of the mining fee FUD. It's complete bullshit.
Limited blockspace and increasing demand wouldn't lead to higher mining fees?...
This is deomnstrated every bullrun and literally just happened with ordinals. But sure it's FUD.
But you don't factor in that Monero is only half of 1% of Bitcoin's mcap. If they had similar mcaps, and we assume proportional usage, Monero would do roughly 8x more transactions.
And because of that, failing to be a decentralized settlement layer. Privacy featured on the base layer does have a drawback
Like I said, you're assuming this doesn't happen gradually over time. Tech is not static, it advances. Multiple terabytes will be very reasonable and affordable in the future just like 1 Terabyte harddrive is right now, but wasn't that way a decade ago.
Yea umm, not that fast. More like 10mins a block with a size of 4mb…. Monero would grow to fast with network adoption. Truth hurts, its just an altcoin and will stay that way
> Monero will be too large to succeed when it gains adoption.
>Monero will always remain a small altcoin.
Which one is it?
There has been massive growth in storage capacity, processors, and internet speed even just over the last two decades. How quickly do you think Monero, or even Bitcoin, will get massive real adoption (if ever)?
To large as in memory storage for the blockchain…….🤡
No shit...what did you think I meant?
I dont know. Your point is nonsensical. Stop marrying your monero
You are showcaseing my point. It processes sliver of the amount of transactions and its already a third the size. If it had the transaction demand that bitcoin does, then only centralized servers would be running a node.
Most of the blockchain size of Monero was before tx size was reduced by ~80%
You keep going back to hypotheticals and "ifs" that might not ever exist.
I'm talking about reality today.
Monero takes less resources to run than a Bitcoin node.
~180GB vs ~500GB which is smaller and easier to download?
So how many TerraBites would it be if it was in BTCs position in the market?
XMR would be under government compliance pretty fast because running a node wouldn’t be feasible for the average user
What does storage cost have to do with government compliance? Now you are reaching. If anything it is easier to control Bitcoin because:
1. No privacy = less censorship resistance. You can find and target users more easily and threaten with prison or worse just like the Canadian trucker donation fiasco proved.
2. Mining centralizes on large corporate mining farms = easy targets for governments.
And we are still in your fantasy world where Monero has the same amount of transactions as Bitcoin *today* (it doesnt). If Monero grows to have the same amount of transactions as Bitcoin in the *future* - technology is not static, it also advances and gets better and more affordable for consumers.
Multiple terabytes. But if that slowly happens over 5-10+ years it would be very reasonable. The same way ~180GB is reasonable right now.
10-15 years ago 1 terabyte was expensive and massive amount of storage. Now it fits on a tiny microSD card that you can get for $50 on Amazon. You're discounting Moores law.
Its in Monero blockchains best interest it stays a small alt coin and used to atomic swap with btc to help privacy
zcash drivechain
The privacy gained by a noob hitting send on a Monero transaction is easier and better than some opsec god coinjoining on Bitcoin.
Privacy by default + encrypted amounts and addresses will always be better than Opt in privacy + obfuscation (nothing is hidden)
Aside from it being expensive, tedious, and slower - Nothing is hidden when you whirlpool. It's weaker privacy via obfuscation. All amounts and connections are visible to be uncovered with more data or user mistakes. Your privacy via coinjoins also degrades over time:
https://localmonero.co/knowledge/ring-signatures-vs-coinjoin
Lightning receiver privacy sucks and hidden balances can be discovered by passive adversaries.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2003.12470.pdf
Amounts and addresses are truly hidden when you use Monero. There is no transaction graph.
Privacy sounds good but it has inflation. So that's a nope from me
Watch this. https://youtu.be/va1pnsCnqHI?si=DMbe-lnRiBBQJINl
Any thoughts on Cashu eCash privacy compared to monero?
I am a can of ecash big time considering everyone uses custodians
But monero is non custodial unlike ecash where a mint can rug you
Tell us your story when you come back ✊ 🫡
Been there done that. The measured answer is bitcoin with privacy tools for 90%+ of use cases. Atomic swaps on an as needed basis if the privacy is more critical.
Not a very deep hole. See you soon