People who don’t realize the problem of trust and custodianship is one directly proportional to the amount of value just really confuse me…

It makes perfect sense to me to have a hierarchy of risk/trust based on how much value is at stake:

• Large savings, planning for the future, major life purchases = on chain holding your keys, best as multisig, imo.

• Monthly expenditures and income, regular purchases, a few weeks worth of funds = Lightning non-custodial, your own node when possible, otherwise LSP on mobile (like BitKit, Phoenix, Breez, Blitz, Zeus, etc) is a perfectly reasonable trade off.

• Daily zaps, small amounts, playing with features, a few hours or a days worth of value = custodial Lightning, ecash, Liquid are all fine. Very little risk, can easily withdraw up a level to self custody Lightning if it grows too large.

The people who hyper focus on the bottom of the value totem and squeal that the system is “broken” or “doesn’t work” because a lot of people use a custodial service, are missing the forest for the trees, imo.

Of course, we would love to have perfect UX for self-custody from top to bottom, but in the meantime, there is nothing wrong with using custodians for explicitly low value payments and small amounts. In fact ecash is pretty dope in that scenario, because you get amazing privacy with it. This isn’t even a controversial take to me, yet it seems like it is to tons of other people. To the point that even noobs are made to feel guilty about it. Thats ridiculous, imo.

Analogy: It’s the difference between sitting on a bench with a stranger and leaving $20K in cash and asking them to “hold onto it” while you go buy a donut, or asking them to watch your cup of coffee. If you come back and your coffee is gone, you’ll be like “damnit”… and then get on with your life or go back into line and grab another. Spending more energy than it’s worth arguing and coming up with some brilliant way to keep your coffee chained down and secure on the bench, isn’t a huge priority. But securing the $20K in cash sure as hell is.

So anyway, if you have a node, run your own lightning, and can use NWC with something like nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm Go, definitely do it because it’s awesome. But if you are using a custodian for some small payments, a Lightning address, or to zap people and you understand the risk you are taking, then that’s perfectly fine too and you don’t have to feel guilty about it like you’ve “sinned.” Just withdraw to your keys when you look at the amount and think “it would suck to lose this.”

Just my 2 sats

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Discussion

Well said

Excellent post! Thanks brother!

Preach. Context matters. Not every sat needs a vault and a ceremony. 🤣 Use the right tools for the right jobs, and stop guilt-tripping people for using a coffee cup when they’re not trying to store gold bars. 🫡

counterpoint

if most of the *actual volume of BTC used*

flows through custodial platforms

ie, 100M people making 1k sat payments daily

then Bitcoin is no longer censorship resistant.

I don't see the connection between "most nodes can censor" and "censorship resistance is broken"

I'm missing the gap from "most" to "all" 🤔

it is de facto NOT censorship resistant if that is the way it is being used.

im aware maxis will insist it's STILL censorship resistant if you can pay a north Korean miner 30% out of band to mine your transaction in two weeks

Ahh. I don't consider miners "custodial platforms"; I thought this was about ecash. That confused me.

just pointing out the bar gor what "censorship resistance" looks like varies quite a bit

it is indeed about ecash, custodial LN etc...

In the traditional system, you might have an IRA/401k for long term retirement savings, CDs or money markets for medium term savings, a savings and checking account at a bank for routine bills and direct deposit, and then credit cards and some cash for walking around with. Most people inherently understand there’s a place for each type of value in terms of risk and storage and liquidity. I see BTC through that lens. Cold storage, hot wallets, ecash, even the ETFs, can all have a place in the overall picture. We can hate what banks have become- but still recognize that forever people have desired a safe (and insured) location to hold their funds. I for one am happy to support businesses leaning forward and building the future we want to see.

Spending is the hardest part. Housing, utilities, etc. don’t take Bitcoin, or credit cards.

yes!

The revolution is we don't HAVE to trust third parties not that trust is always bad.

Bitcoin enables you to minimize trust to the extreme, but also add it back in to the extent that the trade-off helps you and is appropriate under the circumstances.

It’s just the basic cold/hot wallet analogy extrapolated into more layers: The way I custody the cash I’m going to spend in the next day or two is not the way I custody my life’s savings.

It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that to understand why users have different arrangements for different amounts of value.

not using self-custody means it isn't bitcoin. you have opted out of the security model completely and now you are using an altcoin. they tricked you because it has a little B showing next to it or maybe inside the app your balance is called "sats," but you are still an altcoin user in denial.

the security model of ecash is essentially putting a tiny section of your foreskin into a paper shredder and hoping it's not plugged in. it's stupid and embarrassing. the amounts don't have anything to do with anything.

furthermore, maybe to you it's only a dollar's worth of zaps that you may have collected and you are just gonna stash it in coinos because you're lazy and the technology hasn't caught up yet. but to the mint operator it could become several thousands of dollars worth. you are deliberately using an inferior technology that completely fails to protect what could be a large amount of funds. what do you think a new person's impression of bitcoin will be after you convinced them to try keeping a few bucks in a mint and it rugs? they're not going to have any confidence. it should never happen.

this whole "small amounts" narrative also harms the privacy aspect. if you want to believe that mints are only safe for pocket change, then what good is this as a privacy tool? it can barely conceal a bag of potato chips. it can't be used for more serious situations where the user needs to conceal larger amounts of money for clandestine activities.

at the end of the day you are shilling an inferior form of fiduciary media that isn't actually bitcoin and you are just making excuses for missing or incomplete technology. it's not good enough and your complacency is showing. you should stop making excuses and demand better. you need to recognize ecash for what it really is. it's a ruggable toy or maybe a proof of concept. focus more of your attention on activating opcodes and the dirty work that is needed to deliver something that offers the same functionality but isn't ruggable. you can have something much better than this if you decide to drop the charade.

E cash is cool

Just not for big amounts

đź’ź

Obviously not savings

this thinking pairs extremely well with #catallax. in fact, this is why the major unlock for catallax will be cashu integration where the trust in the mint and the trust in the arbiter/escrow sort of cancel eachother out

Agree đź’Ż. The part that needs thought is how do we go from 1 million to 1 billion self custody.