Custodial? Whatâs the point of bitcoin if you push for custodial solutions I donât understand you?
Discussion
You realize you don't have to keep the bitcoin on the platform, right? Furthermore, you don't have to keep your entire hot wallet their either. I keep a few thousand sats on fountain.fm and stacker.news so that I can easily tip. If I end up getting tipped and have large balance, I withdrawal it to my node or cold storage. It's pretty simple to have a balance for spending in a hot wallet and separate balance for cold storage.
I understand that but how are you funding wallet of satoshi (custodial wallets) matters. Thatâs an onchain foot print that chain analysts can observe and most plebs will fund it by directly spending from their exchange wallet. Hence giving up their id known to an exchange that they fund it from to custodial wallets. Why would one wants to id themselves onchain?
you said most plebs would fund a wallet from their exchange. do you mean the same exchange that probably already knows who they are thanks to KYC? i don't see the problem here.
Yes they know who you are inside their exchange. But when you spent from that exchange your utxo could potentially be tied to your identity by some other entity who will observe the chain. And itâs not about losing some sats you donât care to lose because itâs a small amount etc. itâs tying your identity on chain. Linking utxo to your identity.
They already know this though. They already have your identity. It's the problem with KYC sats.
I doubt many have non kyc sats apart from hardened bitcoiners
You are being paranoid for no reason about something that will never be an issue for you.
Itâs not about being paranoid, in
Satoshis white paper title, p2p electronic cash , this system Satoshi's electronic cash is successful because it created the conditions for an electronic analog to physical cash (utxo). For the first time ever, data could be cash. And data is analogous to speech, and speech always wants to be free.
Why would one want to id yourself onchain forever thatâs not what bitcoin is about.
It's like these people have never even skimmed thru the white paper. Wild. https://imgur.com/a/NYFHQRb
Are you worried about losing $5 worth of bitcoin that is intended to be spent on tips? I donât understand this mentality.
I'm ok with small amounts in custodial wallets, and I'm a run-your-own-ln-node maxi. I have 5000sats in stackers news that I wouldn't care to lose, and I can send it to my own node very easily. Meh!
Right. I am very much a self-custodial maximalist and can appreciate others who want to do everything self-custodially, but that doesnât preclude the need and use of custodial solutions with small amounts for which the risk and impact of loss is minimal. If someone is going to be rekt by losing $1 worth of sats then they have other things to consider in their life.
đ¤ I thought bitcoiners were about routing around the state and not finding excuses for why they no longer have the guts to do so, Isnât this the truth?
People will move towards convenience, need a fast non custodial solution
Zeus + node
Ok so in other words if a state knocks on your door for your kyc sats transaction youâll happily comply because of convenience?
Where is this happening? Where has this happened? China has had several bans on bitcoin; has this happened there? What gives you cause for concern that this will happen?
Why are you so certain that this wonât happen because in China that didnât happen? There was an executive order 6102 not long ago signed by us president 90 years ago.
You didnât answer any of my questions.
From way back in Damus early days, many block confirmations ago, @jb55 said the like button would become an automatic LN tip, if memory serves me correctly.
This is the way
Where is this happening? Kyc bitcoin is where itâs happening
Where has this happened? Every kyc exchange on earth
China has had several bans on bitcoin; has this happened there? Yes they had to destroy their mining equipment at some point, which is in fact a form of confiscation.
What gives you cause for concern that this will happen? Executive order 6102 passed 90 years ago
Just depends, I see bitcoin as a âlayer 1 moneyâ, which means other layers will need to be built on it for many apps and people.
Ok fine, but your privacy at stake isnât it because of convenience also I donât know if Bitcoin is money.
I believe there is a flawed concept of equating Bitcoin to money. By framing Bitcoin in this way is to let the enemy choose the battlefield. If Bitcoin is money you eventually accept that it must be regulated and controlled as all money is. Bitcoin isn't money and isn't cash. Bitcoin is an entire system, a system for creating the conditions of physical cash, electronically.
Custodial doesnât have to imply bad privacy, look at chaumian ecash for example.
With regards to the money question, I think whatever is _used_ as money _is_ money. The regulations come as a consequence of the inherent control governments have over the digital fiat money we have today.
I use sats as electronic âcashâ just like satoshi explained it and Samourai wallet lets me achieve that because there are no other equivalent stack with postmix tools.
If you carefully read Satoshi's white paper titled "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" you realize that we are increasingly in a world where we are taught to be suspicious of cash, that those who choose to deal primarily with physical cash are shady at best or criminals at worst. Make no mistake, this is a war, and the victory condition is a state where ALL transactions are tied to an identity that leaves an audit trail for law enforcement and tax authorities.
The war on cash is a real thing. The benefits of a cash free society are too great (from the perspective of central bankers and the state) and make no mistake the war on cash is a WAR ON YOU!
Bitcoin represents a Serious threat to the war on cash. Without firm control the central banker vision of a cashless society can be severely undermined with Bitcoin.
Now Satoshi's white paper title, p2p electronic cash brings system that Satoshi described as electronic cash and it was successful - it created the conditions for an electronic analog to physical cash.
For the first time ever, data could be cash. And data is analogous to speech, and speech always wants to be free.
Unfortunately from the very early days Bitcoin has been painted as "a better money" but this is flawed and why #Bitcoin is being actively attacked in the war on cash, tied up in 'Anti Money Laundering' regulations.
There are no 'coins', no 'notes', no 'currency units'. There is only a chain of digital signatures. There is no issuance of currency. When a new block is found a new special digital signature is created. The signature announced publicly to anyone who will listen.
They are no wallets because there are only keychains that hold public/private key pair data.
Text. Data. Speech.
I was thinking about it and I mean âcashâ more as a financial foundation system also, Bitcoin âcashâ by still need to evolve, be found.. maybe itâs lightning, but whatever it is will be a derivative of Bitcoin, not necessarily bitcoin directly. Itâs like treasury bonds, people donât use treasury bonds for everyday âcashâ use.
Yes as long as bitcoin is the underlying standard, you can build payment systems on top of it and being pegged to BTC. That prevents money printing and maybe BTC does not need to be the layer where things are settled on day-to-day activity. Or its actually LN that is this second layer