Nostr Web Client

Could folks please test zapping me?

I will temporarily use this custodial service until I figure out how to make my self-sovereign CLN compatible with NIP57. Has anyone figured out how to do it?

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nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Bolt12 can't come fast enough. But LND continues to prioritize other things.

"The most common gripe people have with lnurl is the fact that an http server is required, and either a domain, or an extra tor hidden service.

With the introduction of bolt12, users can simply provide an offer that is served at their lightning address. This is a significant improvement in privacy, especially as bolt12 supports blinded paths.

Furthermore, bolt12 offers allow users to gain access to payment flows equivalent to lnurl-pay (without a lightning address) and lnurl-withdraw, without requiring any third party to host an http server, or provide a domain."

https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/5594

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Discussion

greenart7c3 2y ago

Are they still avoiding talking about bolt 12?

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

The critique is that the spec is unfinished, alot of theoretical concerns, that it contains alot of new features and LND doesn't want to develop new features right now, as they are focusing on stability.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

The sooner nodes lets you choose implementation, the faster this gets resolved.

Electro ⚡️ 2y ago

Hope Nostr put fire in their ass.

Gregor 2y ago

Bolt12 seems critical, small merchants should never have to use custodial services just because they lack the means to run their own server, a non custodial mobile wallet should have to suffice.

Guy Swann 2y ago

Seconded.

It’s incredible to me that such a significant barrier to casual users which is almost universally “solved” with a centralized third party needs to be argued for why it should be a standard part of the protocol.

This is the core of why the internet re-centralized, running servers, DNS, etc is a real pain in the ass. Bolt12 gets around a major hurdle of that. If we want sovereign nodes and users holding their own keys, Bolt12 is a huge piece of that puzzle, imo.

Edward 2y ago

Any idea why has this taken so long to implement?

Guy Swann 2y ago

Debates over whether these functions should be in the protocol or whether they should be application layer (provided as services, done by individual clients, etc)

LND and Lightning Labs have argued pretty stubbornly that we shouldn’t put it in the protocol and if the goal is users holding their own keys and hosting their own wallets and running their own payment processing software in a sovereign way… then I think they are terribly wrong about it.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Begs the question, if they are partners with the WEF after all.

https://www.weforum.org/organizations/lightning-labs

Edward 2y ago

If that’s the case then they may never implement it. At least Core lightning is experimenting with it.

Might be worth supporting Core lightning instead

BitcoinEagle.dev 2y ago

They run a business which sadly incentivizes them to be the rent-seeker and charge fees on selling their services. Adam Back and blockstream seem to be much better aligned. They don't do lightning for money. They have profit on other things like mining hosting

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

its almost as if they're avoiding the very big use case of self-sovereignty, running your own node, which is bitcoin ethos. Take back control of your money. It's super easy for average users to run today, not harder than installing a modem in your home.

The Conscious Contrarian 2y ago

Can you explain this to someone who is less technical? How would bolt12 change the experience for the user?

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

https://bolt12.org

The Conscious Contrarian 2y ago

Thank you!

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

By using the Lightning Network to send messages, there's no need to run a web server or even deal with that: your lightning node does all the work of serving invoices for offers, and taking the money.

+ a bunch of privacy benefits.

The Conscious Contrarian 2y ago

Agree that this would be massive!

charisma_ni_zandro 2y ago

They can't.

StStolz 2y ago

Waiting hard for Wallets to integrate Bolt12. Already working well with my core lightning node. lnurl is a nice addon. But such a central feature should not be solved by second party.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

I think LNURL servers can live side by side with Bolt12 invoices, different use cases.

StStolz 2y ago

For sure. But at the moment we have to use lnurl for Bolt12 stuff

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

The argument that Bolt12 has no implementation is weird to me, as it works on CLN. 😜

StStolz 2y ago

My talk... that's why "waiting hard for _Wallets_". No need for lnd here.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Lightning Labs has sunk alot of cost into their centralised lightning infrastructure, which Bolt12 disrupts. Hence, why they're not too excited about Bolt12 in LND.

78e47dfe... 2y ago

Too bad 90% of the people will still depend on an external service/domain/node if they are going to use lightning.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Waiting for CLN to be available on Citadel once they relaunch,

78e47dfe... 2y ago

Think it would be possi le to run ultra lightweight and private on mobile phones someday? Because without it, I doubt we will reach mass adoption

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Will probably be yes

⚡Lightning Goats⚡ 2y ago

Yeah, I spent a couple days learning and implementing lud16 just so all the nostrers using lnd could send me zaps. All the while I've been able to accept bolt12.

It was a good learning experience, but I could have been outside with my goats.

#bolt12

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

⚡️

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Please let us know what you had to do and share with the community.

⚡Lightning Goats⚡ 2y ago

I'll try. It was somewhat involved. What would help me document it setting it up with another person and or two, since I didn't write down what I i did.

I used cln, nginx , wireguard port forwarding, and lnbits.

Before I implemented this I did figure out what I' calling zap aliases which require less work see: https://bolverker.com/zap_aliases.txt

"A zap alias maps to a zap address (lud16). For example: sats sent to the lightning address sat@bolverker.com arrive in my bolverker@strike.army lightning address and are available in my Strike account. If you have a lightning address hosted by a third party like walletofsatoshi.com, strike.army, or getalby.com and you want to have a lightning address which uses your own domain without having to do the all heavy lifting then a few simple steps will get you going with you own zap alias."

Brisket 2y ago

Lnurl was a bandaid.

It's a good thing Bitcoiners like to scratch their own itch while not asking for permission.

Bolt 12 can't be ignored anymore.

nakad.ai🔱🦁🛡️🏯📿 2y ago

Yep they have to address it when others write code and plebs run it.