Isn’t paying with bitcoin counterproductive? Genuine question. I’m trying to save as much of it as I can, so when a business accepts bitcoin I still use cash.
Discussion
paying with bitcoin is more convenient for some including myself.
Spend and replace if you want to support the movement, but not touch your stack
You can also pay with cash while the vendor receives bitcoin. You’ll likely get higher quality goods & services. At least that has been my experience.
And you’ll notice bitcoin business will often offer a discount when paying in bitcoin, or a surcharge when paying in fiat.
Gresham's Law in action 😄
To be fair, I'd be more inclined to spend bitcoin if I was also getting paid in bitcoin.
In unrelated news, I'm starting an online shop accepting bitcoin some time in July 😄
what will you be selling ?
Nothing fancy, outdoor/camping gear for cooking, the initial idea was to be less reliant on a fixed salary without adding tons of work to my schedule and while that's still true, I've come to really like the idea of setting up a fancy campsite and preparing decent food there.
nice! are you curating/reselling from wholesale, or do you make the stuff yourself?
The former, I'd love to make my own stuff but I'm involuntarily investing 80% of my money in the state and can't afford a place big enough to set up a workshop 😅
I have an agency setting up the shop itself and dropshipping agreements with Chinese manufacturers (that's where stuff's made, unfortunately), as well as logos, images, and designs. I'm a web developer myself so I can extend the shop with things like lightning invoices but my main task will be (online) marketing. I have no idea if the entire thing is viable at all but what I've paid for it wouldn't even have bought me a car let alone a home or anything substantial so I thought I might as well try it. 🤷♂️
love it
Spend and replace (plus 10%). Spend $1 of bitcoina and replace with $1.10 of Bitcoin
Perhaps selfishly counterproductive.
It is arguably very productive in creating a Bitcoin circular economy that you hope to live in.
I’ve had a lot of experience paying with bitcoin from Strike using dirty fiat. It’s ridiculously easy.
Can someone list other wallets/solutions offering this feature please?
To save as much as possible you would have to live on a bitcoin standard and sell some whenever you needed to pay for things. Having any cash on hand means you’re not saving as much as possible.
Counterproductive? Depends on your goal. I want to freely trade and support the separation of money and state. So I spend bitcoin and replace sometimes.
Buy. Spend. Replace.
This is obvious to anyone that understands math.
Spend and replace - fosters circular economy and you don’t lose anything
If you live in the US and you “purchase” Bitcoin with fiat and then use that bitcoin to purchase goods you are required by law to pay capital gains tax on your use of that bitcoin. So you are taxing yourself unnecessarily. Also converting BTC to the lightning network is also considered a taxable event.
I think you’re wrong. What is the capital gain on buying $100 worth of bitcoin and transferring $100 of bitcoin?
Also btc to lightning conversion is not a taxable event that’s misinformation on all accounts
You only pay on gains. So if you buy at $100 and sell (or spend) at $130 value, you’d pay capital gains on that $30.
If you buy $100 of bitcoin and spend on something that costs you $80 what happens? Is that a capital loss of $20? No
It all depends on the market price when the transaction takes place. If it’s immediate (marginal change) then you don’t have to worry about paying tax.
In my above example if sold $80 worth of bitcoin whether it’s a loss or gain would depend on the market price.
Right. It’s pretty much just like selling stock or a home. But people should also remember if there are any costs, it is minus any costs such as fees.
Sounds great BUT that only applies if you only own that amount of BTC. If you bought $100 ten years ago and you’ve been holding it and then purchased another $100 and sold it that day your spread isn’t $30 it’s the gain from 10 years. FIFO.
You’re selling your BTC to the lightning network. Definitely taxable.
lol no your not. Do you have any idea how lightning works?
Go run a node and open your own lightning channel to see what’s actually happening. I’m going to stop replying because it’s obvious you need to dig deeper
Do you have any idea how the US government works?
retarded.
LN isn't a thing that you can "sell your BTC to."
You’re right you sell it to fiat first.
you are a very confused person
opening a LN channel is locking a utxo into a 2 of 2 multisig.
native Bitcoin. nothing changes.
there is no sale and no one at the IRS thinks there is.
Spend fiat. Hoard Bitcoin. This is the playbook until: 1) legal tender 2) paid in bitcoin only 3) makers of really good stuff refuse fiat
Simple answer: spend bitcoin, replace the bitcoin. Double maxi answer: Borrow fiat against some of your bitcoin, buy more bitcoin with the fiat, spend the bitcoin, pay off the debt with fiat or with bitcoin collateral at a point in time when the dollar price is higher than whwn you opened the loan.
I spend btc and replace because it’s cool and fun. Worth the minimal extra fees to me.
I try to live on a bitcoin standard. Buy bitcoin with all my pay, spend on a cc that rewards in BTC and pay that off with BTC I bought, spend less than I make and let it compound over time
“The Global Free Market will fail if Bitcoin does not become a medium of exchange.” nostr:npub1s05p3ha7en49dv8429tkk07nnfa9pcwczkf5x5qrdraqshxdje9sq6eyhe
Watch this podcast & then answer your own question. You got this!
https://youtu.be/2Vd35J-TA_4?si=YCbXeQazYMTHhfhI
My take used to be hodl for dear life and now it’s:
Step 1 BTC journey - hodl
Step 2 BTC journey - run a node
Step 3 BTC journey - transact in Bitcoin as much as possible
Step 4 BTC journey - earn in BTC
Thrive!
Bitcoin is fuck you money.
The government wants me to use dollars and buy bonds because these financial instrument allows the government to fuck me.
I want as little dollars as possible because I would rather tell the government, fuck you.
I need to eat. Maybe I end up with less bitcoin this way, but I get tonsay fuck you.
Simple answer: It's counterproductive up until the point where you go all in on Bitcoin and own zero dollars.
From that point on, your mindset completely changes. You literally cannot be any more convicted or save more in Bitcoin (excluding leverage).
Hard to explain the effects it has on you mentally with how you value things. Just need to get there on your own.
Quite the opposite. Paying with bitcoin is beginning to live in the bitcoin world.
Do what you need to do. Bitcoin is not cheap anymore. Strive to get as much as possible. You will know when you can spend sats. You will just feel it.
If no one spends Bitcoin then its use as a currency dies. It no longer becomes transactional. And therefore worthless.
It's little different to fiat in this way. With all money you want to save as much possible, save more than you spend, but if no one ever spends their dollars then they're just useless and worthless pieces of paper (which we know they are, lol)
If you’re on the Bitcoin standard, all fiat is converted immediately to 🌽
This is the way 🫡
Until merchants offer a financial incentive to pay in Bitcoin rather than fiat, assume they would just prefer fiat. If they prefer fiat, and you prefer Bitcoin, then why fight it?" Just pay in fiat (preferably with a credit card that pays cash rewards - which you can turn into more Bitcoin).
Just don't spend too much, and you'll be fine.
That's how I see it. Yes, you'll want to hodl it, and spend very little, but that's the beauty of it.
Or you can just purchase and own XMR (like I would like to do) using a decentralized swap.
Spend&replace. Just use the right network 🧡
I guess the counterargument would be that bitcoin derives it’s value by being a peer to peer electronic cash system. You as a bitcoiner carry a certain responsibility to proliferate its use as such. If no one uses it to pay for anything and we all just put it under our mattress, where does btc get its value from?
Bitcoin is useless and worth 0 if you can't spend it without asking permission.
It's the duty of all Bitcoiners to support businesses that accept Bitcoin in order to make game theory make other businesses wanting to accept Bitcoin as well.
By bootstrapping this circular economy you make Bitcoin more useful therefore more valuable because more permissionless.
You don't want to be only able to spend your sats by selling it to a KYC exchange right ? So make it as easy as possible to spend.
Buy spend replace, it's easy.
If cash is inflationary why hold it?
You can always P2P exchange for cash if you need it.
If you’re afraid to spend it you haven’t figured out a good way to receive it too. Create your own circular economy. 😉
Give yourself an encouragement to spend it and help create a BTC economy: buy double the amount of what you spend.
If it’s money you have to spend it at some point. Implying you can spend something besides bitcoin means you’re holding fiat and short Bitcoin.
Imagine yourself in a few years. Imagine you are fully convinced that bitcoin is better than fiat. Every cent you earn goes straight into bitcoin, and you have no fiat. How will you buy stuff? (Some of us are already living like this, and when people say 'never sell' it just signals that you're not there, not yet...)
If you can afford to use bitcoin, you should. What we need to push more than anything at this stage is adoption.
If you can't afford to use bitcoin, don't. Use fiat, because at least you'll be exchanging a worthless store of value for something else with more utility.
lots of people love admitting that they retain less sats than they could (replies to this).
i get it, it’s cool you are trying to facilitate circulation.
i, however, will hoard and use the shitty money they pay me in and denominate all of my local liabilities in to retain my hoard.
If your scared to use technology because of greed you may be a trained cunt
> when a business accepts bitcoin I still use cash
Ah the great Bitcoin circular economy.