Who's wish? Did the Ukrainians drafted into the war wish for it? What about the Ukrainians in the donbas that had referendums to exit Ukraine, did they wish for it? Certain members of the government have lined their pockets in the process, its their own free will to treat their citizens like cattle I guess.
Discussion
The truth is that in the liberal "democratic" west, things are decided for us , and all we really have is the illusion of choice .
Take the Lisbon treaty in Ireland for example .
Ireland voted NO
So they just bombarded the country with propaganda to guilt people into thinking that Ireland needed to cede sovereignty to Brussels and made people vote again (which was illegal , in the Irish constitution you have to wait a certain amount of time between referendums) .
The most common tactic is that a centralised group of unelected people decide what happens in Europe , and then through the media and the behemoth NGO sector , cram in down peoples throats until whether they like it or not .
*whether they like it or not .
This Ukraine war , which has nothing to do with Ireland, is the latest example . Almost entirely driven by propaganda and NGO browbeating .
If you ask the average Irish person , it is not a priority, although they feel compelled to act in public as though it is for fear of being outed as some kind of "far right" extremist , which increasingly is just a way of labeling those holding power to account.
You should live a year in Russia and a year in China. You’ll love the “liberal” West after that, believe me.
That may be so , but this I'm not interested in pissing contests.
In the “liberal” West you have an illusion of choice , in Russia and Chine you’ll just land into jail just trying to say (to say! Not to act) something against the government .
Try going to Russia and say openly you are against Putin or the war.
> Try going to Russia and say openly you are against Putin or the war.
It's impossible. Pacifist meetings are very rare, but the problem is that there are almost no pacifists in Russia. These people can say with tears in their eyes that they are against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but at the same time they are for the Ukrainian invasion of Russia. They either rejoice or pretend that nothing is happening when the Ukrainians bomb the Donbass or carry out terrorist attacks in the Crimea. I don't consider such people to be pacifists.
I'm not a russophile either.
I’m simply suggesting a very easy and practical test - to come to Russia and proclaim openly the anti war opinion. After that, see what happens and compare to the “ liberal” West.
And you just push a lot of disorganized statements, some of them sounding very propagandistic.
It may be hard to believe, but Russia is a capitalist country and eagerly copies everything "bad" from the West. If something is forbidden in Russia, it is only a parody of what is forbidden in the West. Russia is an absolutely naive imitator. Like an Indian copy of an American blockbuster.
You are totally lost. Russian economy is mostly planned, there is almost zero rule
of law (many Russians that have their shops in EU emigrated from Russia because it was impossible to do business in Russi without having to pay fees to corrupt state employees). And it is impossible to critize war in Russia, which is possible in the west. https://x.com/natalkakyiv/status/1691112595820777474?s=46&t=qQkei1Cr-Ky2TZJUczMQYA
It is not that simple. It's easy to find videos of arrests of anti-war activists opposing arms supplies to Ukraine.
The Russian economy has shown amazing stability. Even here, in Russia, everyone expected a collapse in the first months of the military operation. Nothing happened.
Great, put a link to one of those videos here and we will analyze why those people were arrested - because of their opinion or because they were causing public disorder.
And then we will compare to trials in Russia - trials because of voicing opinions with absolutely no public disorders.
There's no need to compare. Of course, these arrests, both in Russia and in the USA, are for violation of public order.
The fact that Russia is now imprisoning the political opposition, which has been working with funds from the CIA and European NGOs, is also no secret. It is clear that both innocent and mentally ill people, who are susceptible to external coercion, are being caught.
Actually, they do the same thing in the US. Of course they do it smarter, plus they control all the MSM and the Internet. They can present it as justice.
Buddy, please come to Russia and just say openly somewhere that you are against the war. Just stand with that slogan outside.
After that, just report honestly what is happening.
You talk a lot , but please do that simple act and you will see.
I am in Russia at the moment. I won't be able to say anything against the "war", firstly because I understand the reasons for this conflict, and secondly because I need permission from the municipality to hold a pacifist rally. They might even allow me to hold a picket, but I would have to hold a sign saying "Peace to the World" without mentioning the word "war".
Besides, I've been to China. A great totally safe country with a rich culture and wonderful cuisine. I recommend everyone to visit China.
Fair enough but that's kind of besides my point. You can say/vote what you want in the west, you'll just be ignored if you are lucky or slandered in the media and harassed by the state if you aren't. Compared to Russia or China the US are the real war mongers. We provoked this war through a series of actions like a propaganda campaign that started against Russia when Putin decided to back Assad against ISIS when we created them to destabilize Syria; not letting Russia join NATO post collapse of the USSR; the overthrow of the previous Ukrainian government; not backing the Minsk accords. Its tragic Ukraine was caught in the middle of all this, but Ukraine being invited to NATO was never the solution, it is a pristine example of US empire building either backfiring, or intentionally being constructed to siphon money to the weapon contractors and politicians.