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There isn't a difference between Bitcoin and Litecoin though it's just a copycat IMO. The uniqueness of Monero is why I put it so high up.

8c3e2a82... 1y ago

Hodl bitcoin, convert to monero to spend

BitTrack 1y ago

Sua análise faz sentido. O Bitcoin (BTC) é amplamente aceito como "ouro digital" por seu valor e reconhecimento global, mas sua transparência torna as transações rastreáveis. Já o Monero (XMR), com recursos como assinaturas em anel e endereços furtivos, é uma opção superior para privacidade e inclusão, especialmente com a mineração acessível a dispositivos comuns. BTC é valioso como ativo, mas XMR se destaca em privacidade e descentralização. Ambos têm seu papel no ecossistema.

dbac4405... 1y ago

Sounds like bitcoin and monero are useless if neither one can't serve both functions. Oh wait... One does.

8c3e2a82... 1y ago

Bitcoin being pseudonymous can’t do what monero does, which is provide complete secrecy of transaction details. Bitcoin was never designed to do this, but monero will *never* see the gains that bitcoin will, so it makes little sense to hold your stack in monero. But if you want your purchases truly untraceable from your KYC-bought coin, hodl bitcoin, then either: bitcoin—>monero—>spend. Or: bitcoin—>monero—>bitcoin—>spend.

There's also options to route your BTC and XMR through Tor and/or I2P, which is better than nothing IMO.

Nina Chopra 1y ago

Network effect. If #Monero had been invented first, we might all be using it now. But given that #Bitcoin was first, most people evidently feel that it's "good enough", and since everyone else is using it, that's what they are using.

Maybe, but Monero's privacy comes with some pretty significant tradoffs. I'm not sure I'd be interested in taking the increased risks of Monero over Bitcoin, regardless of which came first.

Nina Chopra 1y ago

Please remind us of bitcoins advantages over monero.

autidability

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You are unfortunately correct. Over time, innovation does occur and even if the new product is superior, a lot of people tend to be stubborn. It's the same situation why NOSTR hasn't had even 1/100 of X or Facebook's users.

ede3d957... 1y ago

Have you ever looked at merchant stats? Because just as much people are using Monero than Bitcoin. Despite its market cap being 500 times smaller.

It's because Bitcoin is seen as an investment, while Monero is used as a currency.

Hanshan 1y ago

i mean...

SLCW 1y ago

Man, nobody is using Litecoin. I remember back in the day it was Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Bitcoin had greater use, but Litecoin was solid 2nd place, followed by Ethereum. Then, once Ethereum got the smart contracts going, it surpassed Litecoin as the 2nd place coin. But Litecoin remained popular, and was used pretty extensively. It was a cheaper version of Bitcoin that was used for smaller-dollar transactions. It's kinda sad to see it cast to side now.

Hanshan 1y ago

LTC might have found a fit with the MW extensions

but why would you use that over Monero?

or use it over BTC for basically anything else except lower fees,

for which there's LN

its just stuck in no-man's-land

SLCW 1y ago

Today, I wouldn't use it because it doesn't really have any practical utility, and as you mentioned, there are other superior options. It just makes me a little sad because it was a pillar of my earliest crypto days.

Hanshan 1y ago

yeah

the curse of just being a little better at everything

but not differentiating enough

Nina Chopra 1y ago

That's a great way to put it. There've been so many projects that are better than bitcoin on this one thing. But they never really took off. The technology is very important. But it's also about building a community - a lot of people miss that.

I think Monero makes some pretty big tradeoffs to get it's privacy. I would not feel confident putting my family's wealth into it.

dbac4405... 1y ago

What good is wealth without autonomy. Most Bitcoiners have not done their research of bitcoins own shortcomings.

I've done my homework and I understand both Bitcoin and Monero very well. Bitcoin makes me autonomous. In the current environment I am content to allow the government to know what I have, and to follow my addresses. If the day comes that I believe it's in my interest to try to hide my wealth from the government, I have options with Bitcoin. But this is not very realistic because if the government comes after you Monero won't save you, nothing will.

Additionally Bitcoin gives me a level of auditability I don't have with Monero, which in my opinion makes it a better long term store of value for my family's wealth.

"Monero won't save you" XMR literally has privacy and security features that Bitcoin does not. I get the whole wealth thing, but at least with XMR you don't have to be concerned about things like unrealized capital gains tax. If the government is able to identify transactions, which it will under BTC, you are cooked.

if you choose to commit tax fraud that's up to you. I choose not to. I would rather enjoy my Bitcoin gains from outside a prison cell.

ede3d957... 1y ago

The tax man is happy about revolutionaries like you.

Enjoy TGU on your fiat NGU profits they produce through inflating money supply.

You are fully at their mercy. Bitcoin standard?

They print more fiat (actually as much as they want) > Bitcoin fiat NGU > They claim you made profits > Taxes Go Up

I am watching all this from the sidelines.

Yes I pay my taxes. I prefer to enjoy my Bitcoin from outside a prison cell. If you choose to commit tax fraud that's up to you. Good luck with that.

"I am content to allow the (current) government know what I have."

Dude, that is crazy.

Are you trying to live like a good man or like a good slave?

If you hide your money from the government and then spend it, if they catch you they throw you in prison. I would prefer to remain out of such situations.

Would I prefer to keep my wealth secret from the government and pay no taxes? Sure. But I can't do much for my family if incarcerated.

It's one thing if you've got no money and you save what scraps you have privately. But I am not in that situation. I have enough wealth to be buying properties and businesses. That game ends if I commit tax fraud and end up in prison.

Tax fraud is no joke, and anyone with substantial wealth that I've never met pays their taxes.

You can still buy and sell bitcoin privately and pay taxes if you want to. That's reasonable.

Anonymity is not just for the tax avoidance. It gives you more optionality and safety.

Perfectly surveiled bitcoin by the governments is "permissioned 3rd party money". It's not a Bitcoin anymore.

Buying and selling bitcoin privately can constitute money laundering. There are many examples of people going to prison for buying bitcoin privately p2p. There have been many FBI stings that imprisoned people for showing up to a Starbucks to buy some Bitcoin. It's happened many times and that's a risk I'm not interested in.

I think you're mixing things. If the user doesn't report cap gains, it's possible.

But the act of buying and selling crypto by itself via non-KYC paths is absolutely not a crime.

The user doesn't have any legal responsobility for verifying whether his counterpart is compliant with all the regulations or not.

buying and selling bitcoin p2p is absolutely a crime and many people have been imprisoned for it. Perhaps you are not aware of the history regarding this subject but I assure you that many have suffered from trying this path.

as a result all my bitcoin is purchased through US based KYC exchanges and every transaction I make is reported to the IRS. If you are doing anything differently then you are taking far more risk than I would.

Best of luck. And I mean that.

and if you don't believe me, google some of the following:

Michael Lord

Joseph Seibert

Aaron Shamo

Local Bitcoins

There is a long history of people being imprisoned for charges like "illegal money transmission, money laundering, violations of the BSA", and so on.

It's just not my game. The IRS knows how much Bitcoin I have. And after January 1st 2025 if they don't know yours, then you are in violation of US tax law and can face penalties, interest, and prosecution.

But if you want a pile of Bitcoin the government doesn't know about, go for it. I hear a lot of new-commers to bitcoin talking like that "I lost my bitcoin in a boating accident". Yeah, the Judge is going to love that.

If the state comes after you, your non-KYC bitcoin won't help you. And in fact, having a big stack of non-KYC bitcoin makes you a target.

Best of luck

The bottom line for me is that I have determined that full disclosure is the safest solution for me and my family. Fuck with the government at your own peril.

That is fair.

I don't mean to scream and shout. It just comes across that way in notes.

I just see strong and potentially scary tradeoffs in being transparently open with the governments about all your transactions. The commies have looted my family once. I owe it to them to not sleepwalk into the same trap ever again.

Hey I don't blame you. There is no love lost between me and the state. And let me say that a small stack of non-kyc bitcoin that the government doesn't know about might be a worthwhile venture. But I am not a small holder and putting generational wealth outside their view is really fucking dangerous.

For example, I am planning to buy some property next year. If all my bitcoin was acquired without KYC then not only would I be unable to show a cost-basis to the IRS, and therefore be subject to a 0-basis taxation event (costing me 10's of thousands of dollars, or more) but it would also trigger a bunch of red flags with several government agencies that I would prefer not become interested in where I got my Bitcoin.

Makes sense.

It's just not really the maximum vision that I see in the Bitcoin project.