no, because it's down 60% against Bitcoin in the past year and most people don't care. It isn't a good thing if exchanges are out of monero. you want liquidity to be able to function.
Discussion
Fedbrain ?
I have no idea what the hell that even means. have a great day. Enjoy the continual loss of your savings in Monero.
Can you imagine the super surveilled world your son will live in?
I don't think so, because you do not yet understand the (store of) value proposition of Monero.
Without privacy there is no wealth. What is public knowledge will be taken from you if deemed necessary.
Wealth and privacy aren't related so I'm not sure what that means. I can have family, own a castle, a business, whatever I want. I can be completely public about they, like Bezos and his new yacht. He is wealthy. There is no question. He has virtually no privacy.
Monero doesn't store value, the markets decide value. They do not currently, and will not in the future value monero. Nobody cares. Sorry, just a fact of life.
Bezos is not wealthy as he is not free to do as he wishes. He has to play along... Because he is not private and all his actions in meatspace are monitored.
Before everything I wish your son freedom. And an understanding about real wealth.
Oh please, get the fuck out of here.
wealth is defined as:
"an abundance of valuable possessions or money."
Not some privacy shit or whatever you are talking about.
He is wealthy and can do whatever he wishes and has a new gorgeous girl to have fun with.
Monero functions perfectly well as money. It usually ranks first or second wherever it is accepted. So no, Monero doesn't need CEX. Bitcoin does, because on-chain capacity is not enough for noncustodial exchange of goods.
If I asked 100 random on the street if they have heard of Bitcoin, 70/100 maybe 80 would say yes. Less than 10 would say they own it. Maybe 5 or less
If I asked the same about monero, less than 5, possibly 1 or 2(maybe!) would have heard of it, 0 would own it.
Money must be openly accepted, used, and agreed upon.
Monero fails this test massively in 2024. I mean hell, Bitcoin does too, but is light years ahead of monero as an actually used money.
If you are keeping your wealth monero, you are losing value over time. Period
If you transact in it and store in Bitcoin that's better, but lose money on the atomic spreads and fees on a cex, and it's also an incredible pain in the ass to deal with. You also have a massive trust issue/vector on the swaps.
I am protecting my wealth with Monero. You'll understand later in the game why I choose to do so.
And it's quite easy to convert your environment to accept Monero when you put in one or two years of effort. Gradually then suddenly.
Lol, no, you aren't. Monero has been trending to zero against Bitcoin virtually since inception. In dollars, it is flat, therefore losing your value.
There is absolutely zero universes where Monero preserves your wealth over time at all, nevermind vs Bitcoin.
imagine thinking fiat denominated value is "wealth"
you didn't read what I wrote, did you?
you literally just said "if you're not getting ahead in USD terms you are losing wealth."
found the fiat maxi
I didn't say that though, did I? why did you make that up?
lol ok bro
"you're losing wealth storing in monero"
*doesnt* mean measuring in USD
your intellectual dishonesty is showing
Bro, you literally lied about what I said. Talk about dishonest.
I said first in Bitcoin terms, then I said if talking about USD. Either way, Monero is losing value over time. That is a fact.
He was talking about storing wealth and value. It has to be measured in something. I could be gold, silver, fiat, housing, whatever...
But currently, in our modern society everything in the world is essentially priced in dollars. Of course I am talking about preserving purchasing power. That's literally what wealth is. They is the definition.
A house can be priced in Bitcoin, but alas, it isn't currently globally. In the US it is priced in dollars. I pay taxes in dollars, I pay my 52 employees in dollars. I save in Bitcoin to preserve my purchasing power.
I realize Monero people are mostly idea logically driven 25 year olds who think that government won't exist and people with use their privacy money, but come on, this whole thread is just filled with nonsense.
"you lied because I didn't say those exact words"
intellectually dishonest
AND
an obnoxious pendant
nice chatting with ya
I didn't say anything like what you wrote. you flat out lied.
tell me this sentence isnt about fiat value as I said it was
"If you are keeping your wealth monero, you are losing value over time"
it isn't about diet value. it is about the value against Bitcoin, fiat, housing, gold, stocks, silver, land, emoyer wages, insurance, literally everything in life.
I absolutely do. You'll understand later in the game.
If your purchasing power gets eroded, you have absolutely no value.
You can privately transact in conknshrlls too, it isn't a store of value and wealth.
But I honestly don't care. If you want to have your wealth slowly eaten away and your future purchasing power gone, that's your choice.
Peace out.
not really "light years ahead" tbh
ahead certainly. but maybe 10x? generously speaking.
hard to be sure.
and if you consider that fiat prices are a bullshit metric
and primarily measure speculation by degens,
its hard to see what recommends Bitcoin beyond USD "value"
literally the entire globe is currently denominated in US dollars with few exceptions. of course Bitcoin is as well.
someday I hope that changes, but in my lifetime doubtful. maybe my son's
that true
but a commodities price is mostly,
as i said
an indicator of speculative interest.
not adoption as a monetary standard
or whatever youre trying to make it out as.
commodity prices are energy are money depending on which, and have been over the course of human history. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bitcoin and others priced in dollars is currently the only key metric for wealth in the financial sense that we can use in a dollar priced world.
nice word salad
just to say
"i argue fiat is worthless out the left side of my mouth
but its a 'key metric for wealth' when I want to argue out the right side"
yes, I am not 15, I value my wealth in the purchasing power it has. Currently, and for roughly 80 years, that is in dollars.
Do you have some kind of magic power that your wealth is measured in something different in 2024?
the difference is that I remember fiat is bullshit when I look at the USD denominated value of my assets.
or any prices for that matter.
the wealth isn't in that USD number.
the wealth is in the /utility/ of the assets.
which is why I am
and will remain
comfortably wealthy holding Monero.
which is not to say USD denominated "value" is a completely irrelevant metric.
but if we accept the underlying premise that fiat money is a broken yardstick,
that means accurate pricing is impossible.
and y'all look dumb and hypocritical obsessing about it all the time,
pretending it's an accurate measure of value when you want to make a point that fits your narrative .
You clearly have no idea what markets are. The value, aka price of something is set by markets. The number doesn't matter, because over time, all other numbers come into alignment via arbitrage of all currencies and assets
Utility means little. It is only what people are willing to take/pay/exchange for a good. That amount may change due to more or less utility however over time. Currently, that people are willing to trade $200 (ish) of a good or service for 1 Monero.
Same for Bitcoin, only $100,000.
You keep getting hung up on the fact that first is fake and bullshit. That isn't accurate however, as fiat dollars absolutely have value. They have value because people around the world trade in it, pay fmduties and levies, taxes, buy homes, et al.
The fact it loses this value over time against assets is the problem. A home costing 3x income is now 10x, etc ...
Free markets are always perfect. buyers and sellers. Somewhat free markets are mostly accurate in the short term, and adjust over the long term to the new market forces and correct.
Currently Bitcoin has a market value of over 500x that of monero. The markets have spoken so far.
This will only get larger over time however as has been the trend since 2018 when it peaked against Bitcoin.
You may value private transaction, as do I, however it is clear that the markets, AKA people, do not in any real way.
quite a word salad just to say you don't understand what "value" means
and who is driving up the price of Bitcoin.
but please
read me some more of your Econ 101 textbook
by which i mean
nice theories bro
but you have no idea what is actually happening in the real world.
I do agree however
that in an ideal setting
what you say *should be correct.
but all markets are manipulated.
and the underlying yardstick (the money)
is deployed unevenly to create situations of asymmetrical advantages.
there is no such thing as market manipulation long term. there are just markets.
I realize that my macro econ degree is probably a bit more advanced than yours, especially on NOSTR, but you'll get it eventually.
How are you not getting it?
it's not hard. frankly, it doesn't matter. I've got family and a large company to tend thabe a great day.
What you call free markets are state permissoned markets. Then the question becomes who controls the state and you pretty fast will encounter Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the prototype cantillionaire.
Now cryptocurreny is all about taking control back. Unfortunately Bitcoin gave up on that mission in the name of fiat NGU. Monero is Bitcoin 2.0. It is created and powered by the same people that made Bitcoin 1.0 a thing. Read the white paper again.
Guess what, Monero is the choice of the free (dark) market, where it matters.
Yes, I promise to use monero if I buy kiddie porn like you. creep...
done here
Any heated debate with self proclaimed Bitcoinesrs these days ends with name calling and rage quiting. Wonder why that is?
Heated? lol. not even close.
This is stupid. Bitcoins original claim to fame and first use case was darknet markets. And this is exactly the same thing corporate media and pundits would lob at Bitcoin to try and discredit it.
Criminals use everything we do. You can't stop criminals from using things especially open permissionless systems.
And I don’t agree with the early dark web purchases eaither. Drugs, murder, child porn, and on and on. People are free to do as they want, I believe the darknet markets should exist. That doesn’t however make you immune from being called a creep. I also don’t believe in drugs or alcohol us. So I have no use for the dark web. Which has been and is funded by the dept of defense, fyi.
Well thats exactly what Bitcoin was used for (and still is to a degree). You don't know anyone in this thread. You're the only one who brought up child porn, "creep". Show us a popular darknet market that has murder or CP. You can't because they don't.
Yes, government created Tor. And the NSA oversees NIST which created the SHA-2 family that Bitcoin uses. Your point?
Ah yes, I remember drugs and child porn in the White paper....
But honestly I don't know who you are, don't really give a shit. Peace out, have a great day.
if you're just gonna go around and lie constantly about people who like things you don't like, maybe you will enjoy this website better than nostr:
It's incorrect to say we are in a free market, we are not from a long time, from the time perpetual futures are on. Big financial players like a bank can artificially pump or dump the price of the underlying asset. Assuming Bitcoin spot market (real btc to buy and sell) is priced at 100k, on the perpetual futures (fake btc to buy and sell), you can make a gap like pump the future to 150k or dump to 80k for example, and so the arbitration process will play it's role and the real market will be pumped or dumped, because of nothing, that's an illusion. The spot market is driven by the future market.
Futures seems good, but when you can perpetually hold a fake position, that's a cheat code.
That means we are in a full controlled and faked market.
But you know, there is other way to fake the market like Tether...
"The value, aka price" --> Price Is What You Pay, Value Is What You Get.
Like the other Monero bros, you are confused.
The actual 'price' of something in dollars isn't relevant. only how much of something is needed to trade for goods and services.
Markets allways adapt to outside forces. Always.
Hence why Bitcoin is 100k in USD, but a million in Argentina Pesos(I think, didn't look it up). It isn't 10x more valuable because of the number. The amount of Bitcoin or Monero or whatever that someone will trade for.
Bitcoin is today $100k, so will you sell your house valued at 500k for 1 BTC ? No, but for 5 isn't ?
How can you say "The actual 'price' of something in dollars isn't relevant" ?
Maybe you are talking about a Bitcoin standard ? Well, if this happens, it will be a different story, but it will never happen until Bitcoin will become fully controlled by the authority, so it will be USD 2.0 ^^
I will sell my house for what I and buyers in the market say I can.
I would have to see if I want to take 1, or 10 or 50 Bitcoin
The same goes for gold, euros, yen, Yuan, ammo, guns, whatever I am selling my house in.
With a global us dollar standard you certainly may want to use that 'price' in assisting you, and people often do. But thsy is because we have been trained to think in dollar terms.
But markets don't have standards. My neighbor traded a horse a a donkey for tractor and some silver, and the deal was done
He didn't go look up the value of his horse and donkey in dollars, assess his feeding and boarding costs, etc .. he then didn't go through the tractor auctions and fetch a price. They offered, added some silvernto entice, and made a deal.
Recently I paid Bitcoin for some gunsmithing. I didnt even look up or ask his rates. I just offered and he accepted. Now he may have valued them in dollars, I can't say.
Or for some reason if you only want car feces in returns for instance, there is no active market for that. It would be purely up to you and the buyer to determine their values. a free and fair market.
But you are correct of course that most people think of price in dollars on high demand and traded assets. This will and has changed.
I understand what you are saying, but there is a standard like it has ever be from centuries, today it's dollar, maybe tomorrow it will be yuan or gold or bitcoin, it's better for a stable economy, especially when it's a globalized one. Bitcoin as a standard seems to be a bad idea anyway, because after all it's a computer program, which can be hacked or something like that, Gold is probably the better option, what do you think ?
I do not accept that fiat is a broken yardstick to measure. It is literally the measuring stick. The number could be $10, or 10gazillion dollars. Unless you are dealing in a true hyperinflation situation that outpaces the markets, the markets will always adapt and adjust across assets, producers, wholesalers, retailers, and so on.
there are no free markets bro
Cantillionaires, VCs and those close to the money printer have their thumbs on the scale.
you live in fantasy land.
Then are you even a Bitcoiner, if you believe in USD as UoA?
I'm glad that people like you, who would never have discovered Bitcoin in its early days rather stay with Bitcoin than take precious space in the Monero community.
Good riddance to you and your son.
ooof. sorry to tell you I have mined and purchased a lot of monero over the past 5-6 years. I'd actually be willing to be I have more Monero than you will ever dream of.
If I ask a random 100 people who own Bitcoin on the street if they have their Bitcoin on exchanges or with custodians, at least 90 of 100 would say yes. Their stack is at any moment poised to hit 0 from rugs and freezes. Must have seen at least 3 posts on X this week talking about exchanges freezing their coins. That proportion would be much lower with Monero. Not only because of the less normie invasion of the community, but because its delisted from almost every major exchange.
Monero self-custody is close to 100%. It's the most undervalued feature in all crypto.
Even maxis do not understand it. They only understand ETF (custodial) NGU.
The US dollar can be self custody too, nothing new there. It’s called cash. According to Jack Mallers, 90% of Strike’s customers bought and then withdrew the days after the election. More and more will over time. Nothing special about monero there.
It is. USD is 95% custodial. And BTC is at least 25% custodial. And for 95% of the people it's fully custodial.
and? what's your point?
What kind of insane fantasy world do you live in that you think merchants all around the world will accept monero and hold monero in their own wallet.
Then what? Pay employees monero?
What about regulated utilities? You think governments will allow them to accept Monero for payment? you are dreaming.
Big business and any business is going to have to pay taxes. Going to pay in Monero? lol, sure...
Where we are going there is no state and no involuntary taxation.
See. The world you are envisioning for your son is a bigger cage.
We are not the same. I wish him and all of us to break free from this. Think bigger. Act accordingly.
You are right. I live in the real world.
Governments have always and will always exist, the people want them, there is no way around it.
Strike is a drop in the bucket compared to Binance, Coinbase, etc. It's has something like 2% of the userbase of Binance alone.
The stats don’t agree. But go try it, see what you get.