If god wants us to worship him so he can have more energy, then isn’t god selfish? And if he wants energy, then that means he is lacking in energy. Because one only wants what he lacks. But if he doesn’t need energy, then that means god wants energy in excess. That is greedy. Either way, this argument paints god as either selfish or greedy. Possibly both.
Discussion
For one, I think we should step back. You say selfish like it's a cuss word. There's a difference between doing something selfish that hurts others and doing something selfish that only improves your situation. Life is painful and God made life. From what sense I can make, God only even made anything because what else would you do? If I can make a universe, bro I am making a universe. So yeah, you could call God selfish. But he also allegedly wrote a book, and sent angels to help us live happy healthy lives. Like the verses about don't eat animals who chew the cud of the field in Leviticus. Maybe we should only eat Kosher pork because of some spiritual woo woo. Or maybe he was saying "he don't eat that shit. Pigs eat anything and they're likely to have worms." What sounds like comandment because it's written in the language of the bible, is probably actually just wisdom of best practice. Now the energy thing. Let's say God is all powerful. No matter how much spiritual energy we give Him, it can't change Him. And I buy that, so I was saying that incorrectly earlier, I believe. So you're right. Still don't wanna give energy to evil spirits. Maybe He can't get any bigger but they can? Again, Im a physical being so who the fuck knows. But also, is it selfish to tell the beings you made to make good choices? i believe something evil is working through the IMF, Davos, world governments. Not metaphorically. Actual evil. And if I'm right, wouldn't it make sense that God, looking out for his creation's best interest, would want to say something like "hey those are evil spirits who will eventually hurt you or others. Don't worship them. They're gonna fuck you over in the end." But again, biblical language. So instead it's "thou shalt have no other gods before me"
The idea that if you can do anything then you’d do what god did and create the universe is a fallacy. It defies logic. A truly perfect entity is perfect in every sense. A perfect being is perfectly content. Perfectly satiated. Perfectly knowledgeable. The reason you would create the universe is because you’re interested in seeing the outcome. But you’re only interested because you have imperfect knowledge. If you had perfect knowledge, creating the universe is a pointless act. God would already know all the outcomes. A perfect entity has no reason to act. This is one of the main premises of Human Action by Mises. Humans are not perfect. We are deficient and vulnerable. We have a sense of uneasiness with life. We feel hunger, pain, fear, boredom, and loneliness. These sensations push us to act. God doesn’t experience these sensations. Therefore, a perfect entity would never have a reason to take any action. So it is illogical to say that god would want to create any of this. It’s pointless. It provides no entertainment because god is already sufficiently entertained. It provides no meaning to his life because he is above meaning. It provides no sense of goodness to himself because he is perfectly good. It makes no sense that he’d do anything. And people contradict this sense of perfection about god when they say things like god doesn’t like when people do evil. This implies that god gets upset with human actions. A perfect being can objectively look at things as they are without any negative consequences. So if god is real, I’d say that it makes more sense that he doesn’t do anything. Which is why I don’t understand why people would worship. It doesn’t do anything for god.
If god wanted to look out for us, he could just get rid of the IMF and WEF or whatever. I certainly think plenty of prayers have already been made regarding that issue. God also looks by without doing anything about people dying and starving all over the world. If god is real, it makes more sense that he wouldn’t intervene. He has no motivation or reason to act.
See i disagree with the perfectly satiated part. That seems like you’re assuming the meaning of perfect. Just because you are without fault doesn’t mean you don’t want things. A person could theoretically live a perfectly moral life, but still wish they could have a boat. I believe by “perfect” if the Word even says that, and it probably does, it would mean it in the sense that God didn’t destroy anything to create, that He doesn’t do evil in order to do good, back to the energy thing. It could mean, though lost in the translation of middle eastern jews from thousands of years ago, that God is the only thing that can create without destroying, where we have to chop down trees to build a house. And even if that’s wrong, one can be satiated but still curious. I can be full on dinner but still be curious what the dessert tastes like. Free will would be the key factor there which would explain why God wanted us to have it. This is a big part of why Bitcoin pushed me to want to know more about God. God wants free will, the devil wants control. Trees look like lungs and trees feed our lungs. Mycelium feed our brain cells and they look like braincells. It’s the mirror image that seems so recurring in nature that intuitively leads me to believe that there is truth in God. And that doesn’t even necessarily demand that I find God through a religion, because belief and religion are also two different subjects. And I kind of get what you mean, that creating everything would be pointless if you know how it’s going to end. Maybe. I know how a rollercoaster feels, but I still wanna ride it. In reality, none of this would be necessary to God. I’ll finish that point in a second though. How do you know what God experiences? You could only read about his experience in flawed books written by flawed men. That doesn’t mean you know what it feels like to be able to speak things into existence. I don’t think God gets upset, tho I don’t know. I think it’s more like “Welp, another one won’t make the cut. Oh well.” I don’t think worship is necessarily for God. Even if it does do something for Him, humans still get more out of it than He does. But even without the need to worship, I still find it easier to be appreciative to God than to just feel appreciative. Attitude of grattitude got me out of the darkest moments of my life. Undoubtedly. Then I directed that energy to God because I believe that to receive you must give. It’s metaphysical to me. I think that’s the law of attraction, magnetism, however you want to perceive that. So in a sense I guess that is a form of worship. But to your point about “You don’t thank your parents every day for having you.” No I do not, but I am grateful that they did all the time. I just don’t bother to text them about it because that takes a lot of time. Thanking God in my heart and mind is literally just a thought. The parallels between God and my parents only go so far because you obviously can’t equate humans to God.
About the none of this is necessary, I actually think there’s something beyond all of this. The Book says God created everything, but I’m actually inclined to think it’s the other way around. God didn’t create nature, nature created God. For one, try to imagine no space, no planets, no stars or gravity or lack thereof. Absolute nothingness. I don’t think that’s possible. I think reality is absolutely inevitable. Nothingness can’t exist. Don’t ask me why that would be the case but it just sounds right to me. Now quantum physics leads to the fact that entanglement can happen regardless of the space between the entangled particles. Lightyears apart, theoretically at least, what happens to one happens to the other even in wildly different circumstances. They also talk about how information can travel, can be carried by atoms. Seems to me like God would be the conscious part of that equation, that God is the culmination of all molecules and interactions that somehow manifested into a higher consciousness, almost like how transistors and resistors and cables can’t do anything apart from one another, but put em all together and suddenly you can get on the internet. I like to the God is the culmination of all reality in one spirit, one metaphysical being or consciousness. Does that mean that Christ wasn’t really the son of God? Nope. Still could’ve been the will of God. Does that mean that Allah couldn’t have had some legitimate tie to the ultimate? Nope. I’ve met people who have that connection to something higher, who could do things that the physical world can’t explain. Doesn’t negate that it exists, just that the story about it is flawed, which we have already agreed, it is.
If nature created god, then why isn’t nature considered to be god? That would make more sense. I know some people that believe that but religion calls it blasphemy.
God being consciousness is plausible but again, why this specific god from the Bible and not a different god? And why is worship good simply because it derives benefits equivalent to meditation? Other religions have followers that feel good and derive benefits from their forms of worship. Every religious person I’ve ever met swears that worship gives them peace and joy even though they oddly always say that they should do it more but consistently fail to do so. How can worshiping be so beneficial when most people are going to be worshipping the wrong god? Since every religion claims only one religion is correct and that the other gods are false. That means most people are worshipping the wrong god. And if they’re worshipping the wrong god, but still deriving benefits, then it means that god is arbitrary. It means whoever god is, doesn’t actually matter. You can worship god or worship the state or worship celebrities. The act of worship is clearly more important than the entity being worshiped.
In my opinion, for whatever reason, humans evolved to be obedient sheep. They are followers. They find peace and comfort in outsourcing their thinking. This is consistent with what we see from humans at a large scale. They don’t verify anything. They believe in things without being able to articulate why. Ask someone why they get vaccinated. They’ll tell you they believe in science. But that’s not how science works lmao. Ask someone why they continue to vote. They’ll tell you it’s because they want to preserve their freedom. More illogical contradictions. The act of voting is a surrender of your freedom. But people feel good after they vote. They feel they are more free because they participated in democracy. But that is proof that just because you feel good, doesn’t mean you’ve improved your life in any way. Like eating fiat food full of high fructose corn syrup.
But the worst thing about worship is that it rewards inaction. Instead of fighting for freedom, people close their eyes and imagine freedom being handed to them. Instead of ending the fed, they pray for a better economy. Instead of ending wars, they pray for peace. You are dealt a a shitty hand of cards and told to wait for your reward in the after life which no one can prove even exists. It’s the biggest scam.
Those are my two sats. I think we’ve gone around in circles plenty so let’s just agree to disagree here 🤝
Because the last church of nature got the boot from Jackson and put on reserves. And i don't know every verse, but i know Revelation 11:18 says "The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
The earth is as much a temple to the bible as your body is. You sound like you blame God and religion for what people do. The fact that Christian morallity and logical mortality are basically the same is one reason, another is the repeating consistencies with history. Another is evidence, including but not limited to the Shroud of Turin.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2pZJuZe2qJJaqKSufA8EhI
The meditation question, it literally says your body is a temple. Why wouldn't both be a way to tap in? To worship, because most of worship is directed gratitude which feels good no matter where you direct it.
There's lots of wrong things that make you feel good. Heroine feels amazing. Long term? Not so much. Also, again, gratitude which again, gives chemical release.
There's also a distinction you should consider that religion the practice gives meaning and religion the institution is a business so obviously it's going to be corrupted and resistant to change. Every tried to get somebody to use a new kind of money? 😆
Good hash, my guy. I hope i made the slightest thing seem more sensible 🤝
I think the best forms of religion encourage the golden rule and seeking divine guidance within oneself. From those two edicts, it is necessary to act where we have control. "Faith without works is dead."
It is true many people use it as an excuse to do nothing, but I don't think that's the core of most quality spiritual practices.
Nice thinky thoughts tho, Hdo, quality pondering. Have some sats 🥂
I am more fond of the silver rule personally. I think the golden rule is retarded lol
What is the silver rule
Don't do to others what you don't want others to do to you. For example, if you don't want to be robbed then don't rob others.
This is more practical than the golden rule. Treating others the way you want to be treated is impractical and most people don't actually follow through. For example, I would like others to give me free money but I don't want to give others free money. The golden rule kind of sucks.
