Are people in general unhappy with Phoenix because of the fees?
Discussion
I don’t think so
I guess as long as they have monopoly on splicing in the phone they can get away with it.
I'm fine with them. The wallet is VERY reliable for payments and starts up faster than the other LSP-based lightning wallets I've tried.
I literally don’t even think about it. But I got enough liquidity for small payments to not be an issue a long time ago. So I probably haven’t paid a swap fee for anything less than 1mil sats like a year. I know some people who got hit with one on 10k sats, so I can see why that would be painful.
Yes, fees too high
Competition will force fees down. As more wallets level up to Phoenix, Zeus and mutiny we'll see them drop. For now they're definitely too high.
For micro #zaps Phoenix is too expensive, but when you stack and hold, or when you moving like thousands of sats, fees are ok. Overall it's easy to use and adds a pleasant feeling of self custody.
People are so conditioned by the legacy financial system that they don’t understand the benefit of self custody and aren’t willing to pay for it despite being gouged by banks in so many ways.
Don't use enough to care about fees.
Connecting to my own electrum .onion makes me want to kill myself every time though.
Fees for the convenience I guess?
Price to pay for using bitcoin at lightning speed?
I don’t understand why everyone complains about fees?
I always pay the highest fees on chain for speedy payments n e way idk why don’t you?
I'm not.
No, they are generally happy because it fucking rocks.
You pay for the convenience
While I don’t mind paying for a service, I made a full tutorial
for noobs on Phoenix right before the update rolled out and then updated it (the next day lol) and noticed the new fees.
Old fees: 0.05-.5%
1st Channel Open: 10,000 sats
Subsequent Channel Opens: 3000 sats
New fees: .4% plus 4 sats
One Time Channel Open: 1000 sats
- I have since done the math, and if it is correct, (pls can someone check!) the first 2.5 million sats one sends incurs 10,000 sats in fees at .4%, so one *could* say that is in place of the original 10k sats channel open fee.
Two points here:
- It is impossible however to know how many +4 sats are embedded there as it would depend entirely on how many transactions were sent.
For argument, let’s say it was x1000 2,500sat payments, then that would be an extra 4000 sats of fees on top of the first 2.5mil sent.
If it was x10,000 250 sat pmts, then it would be an extra 40,000 sats of fees on top of the first 2.5mil sent.
And if it was x100,000 25sat zaps for eg, it would be an extra 400,000 sats of fees on top of the first 2.5mil sent!!
Ofc there are many variables here, since the old fee structure included 3000 sats for each new channel open (after the initial 10k for the first channel). This could be lessened or avoided though by opening a larger first channel.
- Second point: After the first 10k sats are accounted for, one continues to pay 4 sats (sometimes 5, see pics) per transaction forever.
In the end, if I am thinking about it correctly, I think the main issue is the ‘plus 4 sats’ on *every* transaction.
This makes it especially unusable for zapping or for micropayments of any kind.
Note: I haven’t mentioned miner fees as those are obviously added when funds are spliced in.
Would appreciate hearing thoughts. While I love the new splicing, it appears to come at quite a cost if I am doing the math correctly.
Final note: I am aware there are obviously many variables as to how Lightning is used, which would also change all the numbers a lot 
Phœnix works great
Phoenix has high fees , 0,4% is a fiat like fee . It doesn’t do 10x or 100x less than fiat which is required for mass disruption
Phoenix is a full node on my phone. But it can only connect to their node.
Lots of Room for improvement and it expect they are aware of it , just takes time.
Not anymore. Super reasonable now
That was my experience with Muun in a high fee environment
I'm gunna try it I don't care about fees if it's easy
Phoenix fees are out of control
₿uild an alternative non-custodial lightning wallet that has lower fees.
everyone i show lightning to i show phoenix
LN solves velocity scalability. Not sure it scales the userbase, however.
It should at least tell me how much it’s going to fuck me in fees before it just takes it
ZeusPay.
Iam fine
Yes. I prefer Mutiny now.
I stopped using it for now because of that. I use Breez more and it’s better anyway.