Nostr Web Client

Can't, yet, unless you want to be kyc-ed to death.

I get your point, but, lightning sucks for self hosting. It only works really well if it is custodial. It is very bad trying to self-custody.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

how different is it between self hosting and when someone deploys the server but you have to log into it?

anyway, that's how i run my lightning node.. got paid this morning so i decided to close my old channels and open up a little more capacity with 2 inbound 2 outbound channels

set the routing fee to, idk, 3 sats, i think so it will route zaps even, i think i am seeing some usage of it also, not sure, the interface isn't really making it clear

i screenshotted the state so i could compare and indeed, my channel balances are now changing, so i guess i'm routing

i had this idea in my mind that if i run public routing channels that if i can catch 400 sats per day in fees i am at least not paying for the hosting anymore (about 12ksat/month)

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Discussion

The Beave 10mo ago

The whole architecture and needing channels is asinine.

No, I don't have a better idea yet.

Not self hosting means I don't loose hundreds of thousands of sats in liquidity possibly permanently if something good wrong (and it does, often).

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

heh, one man's ass is another man's reliable luggage animal

so far the worst experience i had with lightning was with Breez LSP where i had a 5Msat payment get stuck for a bit over a week

with alby hub it's been smooth... i'm not sure if itt's working with nostr atm tho, but then maybe nobody zapped me in the last 6 hours

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

i certainly can zap you anyway

The Beave 10mo ago

Sure. But your earlier zap (2.1k) disappeared.

Another person sent me a 5K zap and that also went poof.

All of this is unreliable, unlike on-chain payments which are just easy and understandable in less than 15 minutes.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

disappeared? maybe you should not use this custodial service if it's stealing your money lol

1) What

The Beave 10mo ago

Yes.

But I don't have a lot of choices, do I?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

well, you actually could rent an alby cloud hub and done, only need about 120$ worth of sats and you can open an inbound and outbound channel and basta, costs about $14/month

not worth it if you aren't getting paid enough to need to actually spend the sats to balance your channels tho

if you were self hosting, probably a decent $5/month VPS would do the job, i just pay the 12ksat because it's for sure hosted on more reliable infra (and it's been flawless)

The Beave 10mo ago

*sighs*

That's still too much. Both monetarily and bandwidth to learn how to do that.

I want a layer 2 that is as simple as BTC. All this extra bs is a bad headache I hate it.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

yeah, i'm sure you will be as grumpy as stella is about alby hub for whatever reason i don't understand

minibits is awful, i mean, you really are getting what you are paying for by the sounds of it to me

also, zaps are retarded to be totally fair, not as retarded as ecash but in the same ball park

i use lightning the same way as i use a bank card, more or less, and it lets me isolate my actual balance in my own private wallets from their stupid KYC shit

stella said that the segregated "family and friends" wallet access functionality was shitty but i'm totally down for giving someone a use of it if they are a friend or part of the gitcitadel, idk, maybe it's got better since then, wouldn't have to be that great to beat minibits from what i'm hearing

The Beave 10mo ago

Sure. Yes. That makes sense. But there are no alternatives that I know of at this time.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

shitty, it is, for sure... a rare consolation for living in the EUSSR for a change

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

i'm not gonna be impressed about anything this new prezident of yours has done until he dials back KYC laws, because they are the worst in the world

goatmeal 10mo ago

peter todd identified two types of scaling solutions. they are payment channel based and UTXO sharing. you already figured out what's wrong with the payment channel approach. it's never going to materialize into something that the end user will do without a custodian, unless they are a masochist.

the UTXO sharing solutions are things like drivechains, rollups, or ark. it's not possible to finish them without consensus changes. even on ethereum where every consensus requirement is already met, they are still not totally finished with creating their rollups. but what has been done today is already very popular. it feels exactly the same as using L1.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

lol, running LN nodes is not that hard and i can Uncle Jim it for my friends and family, the complexity is much less than L2 solutions

drivechains have all the same problems as L1, that's not the problem they are trying to solve, as far as i can tell all they seem to be is a substitute for big blocks

rollups are just a primitive version of state channels anyway, they need some kind of game theoretic construct to stop participants from doing malicious things in a group setting

i have talked about such simple things as making state channels three way to improve rebalance, and the problem of nodes force closing each other is about the note implementation flexibility because really at least among friends there should not be force closes, they are punitive for a reason, and are there for the low trust scenario to make it unpleasant to try and cheat, and give the victim plenty of time to react

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

yeah, rollups put trust on who opens up the rollup also, so it's still the same shit as state channels except supposedly "anyone" can use the tokens in the parachain or whatever stupid name you give it

smart contracts are bullshit... humans should not be and will not be cut out of the authorization process no matter what these kurzweil sucking lollipops think

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

the problem is all of the l2s are gonna have trust vulnerabilities

LN has the weakest trust vulnerability as well as the highest possible throughput and liquidity

at minimum with the help of NWC one uncle jim can sort out probably at least several score people

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

are you sure it's just the stupid nostr client messing up the zaps, half the time i don't see zaps appear properly in the nostr but on the lightning they are there just fine

lightning > nostr for reliability

The Beave 10mo ago

Yes. Amethyst showed an incoming zap for 2100 sats. Minibits also popped up the notification of the zap.

But, nothing showed up in my balance.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

fuckin minibits

you are the third person i am hearing in the last week or so saying they are having problems with them... first was nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z, then nostr:npub1cxp3l03x20mkzezzr4takm8w8zuva7xwvacmcewp97z58hjt8xls3mexlq now you

The Beave 10mo ago

Yeah. It's fine for small stuff, but... Not cool for most other things.

Silberengel 10mo ago

Yeah, that happens regularly. Sometimes they show up, later, as an error, and then you have to retry them.

I use Minibits to zap out, but not in.

ChipTuner 10mo ago

Yeah and you really need a couple to a few million sats as a bare minimum. So were talking non-insignificant stack tied up in channels. Same reason I went custodial for now.

The Beave 10mo ago

Yup. Screw that. It's utterly asinine.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

ah, see, this is how it works for me:

i get paid directly in sats, so this month i just had it go straight into my alby hub LND node wallet

i keep control of my sats in there, in the channels, and when i need cash i zap them over to my xapo bank account (which is expensive, mind, ~$80/month in fees, paid up front a year at a time (ie $1000)

but you see the advantage of this is that i don't have to keep any of my sats in custodial arrangement, it's all locked to a key that i have control of, not as tight as cold storage but better than custodial, and custodial AND registered SWIFT/SEPA capable bank, that's major ruggability that i just don't want to know about. if something goes wrong with my xapo bank, i still have 95% of my funds and can then panic for a day figuring out a second option

i used to hold a few score euros in cash when i lived closer to an ATM but the nearest one from here now is over an hour away where it used to be only 15 minutes, but the local grocery store takes CC network payments so i have very little reason to draw cash at any time unless i want to buy things at the hardware store in the next town

The Beave 10mo ago

That's reasonable for you.

That's not something I can do.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

yeah, i'm being lazy too, i mean, no, not lazy, i work only 20h a week at the fiat mine so i can work on nostr stuff

it's good being a programmer, hard to get started, a lot of time cost there but it has paid off handsomely

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

also, no, you don't really need 2mln sats (which is about $1800) there is plenty of peers you can open channels with at the 100-200k level (so, about 300 will be enough) for the minimal case of your own private 3-4 channels, 2 outbound 2 inbound

the hosting fees are 12.1k sat a month for a hosted alby hub, so about $14 a month to run it yourself

The Beave 10mo ago

That's way too much just to host. WTF?

That would eat away at or cost me to use their stuff. That's definitely not going to happen.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

it is flawless though, i was a bit nervous at first too but i have had zero problems with it

if only i could pay my grocery bills with it, then i could abandon the really expensive xapo bank

The Beave 10mo ago

12.1k sats a month is way too much. A year? Maybe.

I only care about lightning for zapping. I'm never going to be paid in sats (probably), and if I was, 12k sats a month would kill. My stack. That's an insanely high ratio. IMO

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

it's literally only 2x the cost of a typical bank account

this whole bullshit with wallet of satoshi really has made a mess for US based nostriches... here in europe you can just use WoS and attach it to your nostr and basta

my worst lightning experience has been with mobile wallets like breez and phoenix, this experience with NWC and alby is fantastic

hell, i could just run these things as a full time job if i could find 1000 US based nostriches to host their LN wallets for lol, charge like $2/month each

The Beave 10mo ago

Only?

My bank costs me 0 fiat.

I'd trust you to host a small wallet more than most. I'd rather pay you the equivalent of $5/ month for that.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

well, the bank is charging you nothing probably because they get paid to KYC you

The Beave 10mo ago

Sure.

I'm so tired of everything ruined by Fiat.

Silberengel 10mo ago

Fiat banks charge nothing because they take the "money" out of the account and invest it, elsewhere.

You pay Alby to hold the money and not gamble with it. It's more like the fees for a safe deposit box or gold vault, than a checking account.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 10mo ago

yeah, not even so much as storing it exactly but i have it open in public routing channels now... i figured that there was a good chance it could do like 200 routed payments a day at 2 sats one in one out so at least i may even not be paying anything for it, possibly.

the security is all in my hands as well, more or less, i have the seed and i can pull the plug on it if something is amiss but the cryptography is pretty solid and my systems are secure against most possible breaches

so it's almost better because i'm actually getting "yieldz" on my sats now by charging a small fee to adjust my channel states

not sure what fees to be putting on them tho, maybe i should set them to liek 3 sats