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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago 💬 53

Can y’all stop shitting on nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg for like one day and just realize that if you already have a way to stack sats and send #zaps, that the in-app purchasing, built-in wallet, and automatic #Lightning address are not for you, but rather to help onboard your friends and other newbies who have never sent or received a single satoshi in their lives, and that instant monetization for content creators is actually really awesome?

Do we want more adoption, or don’t we?

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Discussion

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Golbez9🔩🤘 2y ago

Fucking people will always bitch

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

I swear.

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anon 2y ago

It’s all so tiresome.

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nobody 2y ago

"but all we do is sit around and shitpost; what are you, the bullshit police?"

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liminal 🦠 2y ago

Louder for the people in the back

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Enki 2y ago

The shitting will continue until sovereignty improves.

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

Why not invite more users to try the #Nostr and then teach them how to self-custody their zaps once they’ve had spent time here and not given up because figuring out which wallet to download and connect it to their client is too complicated?

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no₿ody™ 🧱 2y ago

Or maybe people can just shill what they wanna shill and not be yelled at for not shilling stuff they don’t wanna shill

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Enki 2y ago

Because if somebody is onboarding through me I don't want them to get complacent. Using Bitcoin takes work. Using Nostr takes work. I'm personally not in a massive hurry to onboard a bunch of people who aren't really ready to use it. When I have onboarded people to nostr, I tell them not to even mess with zaps until they're ready to use LN in a self sovereign fasion and feel comfortable navagating nostr. Hell, I personally didn't even use zaps for the longest time until I was comfortable running it myself.

I still don't think we're ready for primetime in either application. Lightning is hacky and janky and people lose funds all the time with it. Nostr is still very early and hacky and janky. Which is fine if you're okay with that, but a lot of people aren't. This insane hype to get everyone to try and use Bitcoin and Nostr at the same time is admirable but I think lacks A longer term outlook. Especially if we have to get other people to use it through these custodial solutions that cowtow to big tech companies that could get rugged at any point in time. Look at WoS did. Everyone in the US was so hyped about how easy it was and everyone on boarded through them and now nobody in the fucking US can use it unless they decide to use a VPN or something to access it.

In some sense, I will admit that what Primal is doing is definitely admirable. Even if I don't like what they have done in the past through censorship. They have open sourced their entire project (i think) and they are trying to make it easier for "normies" to use it. And in a sense, I definitely appreciate that. But at the same time letting people get complacent through custodial lightning solutions that can rug at any moment on the whims of regulator is bullshit.

I care very much about data sovereignty and the freedom that both Bitcoin and Nostr can bring people And I don't want that to be lost through an overreliance on custodians and KYC soultions. Again see WoS.

I don't know. I'm sorry for the long winded answer. But I won't stop calling out what I consider bullshit. And some KYC custodial lightning solution to me is fucking bullshit.

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Enki 2y ago 💬 1

I hope what I said makes a semblance of sense. I tried to organize my thoughts a bit.

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Enki 2y ago

And of course as soon as I post this I run across the post from Odell that says probably what I could TLDR that post into in a more succinct fashion. 😅

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+boldmouse096⚡️ 2y ago

💯

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TKay 2y ago

I believe I have a note on this. Personally, I am on board with this approach, the nostr apps should be a complete onboarding experience including the zaps.

The lightning network is the biggest aha moment for nostr. If it’s not made simple and built into the onboarding process, people migrating from other apps won’t find any of this interesting, especially the content isn’t there yet.

So you need a differentiating feature. That feature is Zaps.

Ultimately, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it.

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brah 2y ago 💬 2

I tried the app for a bit - it’s looks nice but I was wondering why there’s no way to view your own profile— probably on the list. They will keep building 💪

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

WDYM?

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ferrell 2y ago

fuckin daniel man always coming in with the proper take

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Derek Ross 2y ago

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Ava appreciate Calm & Wisdom. 2y ago

Des gens comme moi sur le plan technique pour gérer les bitcoin et les faire fructifier afin de pas commettre d'erreur il a fallu déléguer cet aspect du bitcoin ..la moindre erreur peut être irrémédiable .'

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Lucid 2y ago

No. We must continue to complain in order to promote development in better tools!!

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Erik 2y ago

Random thoughts 💭

Agree but Im conflicted. This route onboards friends to an app/experience that steals from them? (In-app purchase with 1%-30% apple cut)

Sounds similar to the system we are asking them to opt-out of…

Yes there are onchain mining fees, lgtning channel opening fees etc, but at least those fees go to an open economy and not a single corporation.

Good on them, lets also push forward 🤙

PV

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

I would love everyone to just use nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 but it’s too much to expect a nocoiner to be able to fund a Lightning channel with sats they don’t have in order to even receive their first #zap.

It’s too much friction for people just getting started.

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Erik 2y ago

Well said 🫂

Perhaps a different perspective is that the 1-30% fee is the price of entry and from there you can jump ship to Zeus or wallet of your choosing

Once you have a few sats

Stay humble 🤙

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Kevin's Bacon 2y ago

It’s not stealing if they have options. It’s voluntary.

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

I think it’s a type of stealing because people who buy sats with Apple Pay probably don’t realize they’re getting fucked over on the exchange rate.

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Kevin's Bacon 2y ago

I thought everyone using Apple knew they were paying a premium for absolutely every monetary transaction. It's clearly advertized, isn't it? Or is it hidden away and inscrutable just like the application management settings or the back button? I hate Apple with a passion lol!

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

Define “everyone.” Most people just scroll down and click “Accept.”

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Kevin's Bacon 2y ago

They still consent. They had the option to read the damn thing as well as to not accept or buy the thing in the first place, and to return it. Better that than being believed to have signed a social contract which was never brought before you and given no way to leave but by extremely costly travel to a foreign land.

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Rock 2y ago

This man speaks the truth

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Carman 2y ago

Who is shitting on them, don't see anyone?

If they are I'd bet they have a custodial lightning address

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

Even funnier, one has a Primal Lightning address.

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Nostr Gang 2y ago

Yes! This is how to “Applfy” The Nostr for normies!

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Meridian 2y ago

So much ingratitude, all around the world.

If you see a project and it's not for you, move on.

If you're taking time out of your day to pour unconstructive scorn on it, it might be worth examining your deeper motiviations...

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𝖋𝖎𝖆𝖙𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 (¯`◕‿◕´¯) 2y ago

How can they sell bitcoin legally? Do they have a money transmitter license?

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The Daniel 🖖 2y ago

Maybe they’re just an intermediary.

d9
Chris Jones 2y ago

Spot on, @primal’s approach is a game-changer! It’s about time we embraced tools that simplify crypto for everyone. I’ve tried a few and the learning curve seems to steep. Their built-in wallet and #Lightning address are exactly what we need to bring more people into the fold. I’ve struggled to get going with lightning so far, but this feels a bit more polished which should help adoption.

Instant monetization? That’s not just awesome; it’s a revolution for content creators. Let’s celebrate steps that make crypto accessible and exciting for newbies. More adoption means a stronger community, and that’s what we’re here for, right? #InnovationForAll #CryptoCommunity

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Satosha 2y ago

email has thousands of clients - they are all good as long as they follow the same protocol and are interoperable ..

Clients must be many to fulfill every need - #protocol must be one to allow interoperability and freedom to move around .

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SnOoZ 2y ago

🎯

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Ross 2y ago

And not only is it crazy simple for new users, more liquidity in the network benefits every user including the totally self-sovereign. The more people holding sats the better, who cares how it gets into the system.

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SBW 2y ago 💬 1

Primal is a really nice microblogging app. If you find yourself caring about literally anything listed in this post then you're not here for conversation but for pumping your bag.

nostr:note182ymvvrnxk2qar0f03426xd2eyk5x7wcg9emgjpn0qrgnajz8rtsfzghtx

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SnOoZ 2y ago

true 👍

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D.J.B 2y ago

True, but Name and email verification is quite an outdated model.

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SnOoZ 2y ago 💬 1

Is it? For everyone or just for you and maybe techies?

You did all that research?

If not let the market decide.

That's the beautiful aspect that you don't have to use it if its shit.

The environment should allow mistakes and the possibility to adapt.

Too many people expect from others to make everything right on the first shot, lol.

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rieger_san 2y ago

The „adoption at any price“ nowadays makes me sick!

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Vladimir Krstić 2y ago

We do, but we need to be really careful. These trade-offs are probably necessary right now. But what if they become the norm? Adoption at any cost will undermine everything Nostr and Bitcoin were meant to be.

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SnOoZ 2y ago

Where is the problem when it is not affecting the nostr protocol? It is just the client. Who is building that client can choose the rules or whatever his creativity wants. If the client is good and meets peoples needs, then it will be used.

If the client is shit, it probably will die.

Let the market play out.

"...we need to be really careful."

Why we? The client builder has to be carefull that he builds stuff that people need. Otherwise people wont use it and all his energy and money is wasted.

Your sentence sounds like a call for regulation for client builders.

Thats a FIAT mindset.

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SnOoZ 2y ago

People will use what they want to use and that is OK. It should be allowed to make mistakes. You learn a lot from pain.

Today, governments take away a lot of pain from people by for example saving banks with money printing. Sounds good, but they take away the ability for people to learn and being cautious longterm.

Anyway. Regulation because often people don't know the details and make assumptions and want to tell others what to do. Thats what politicians do.

In my opinion taking the easier way is not a fiat mindset. I actually think that a natural thing. E.G. water or electricity takes the easiest route to flow. Doing nothing means death, but finding the easiest way to get what you need is natural.

It doesn't matter which client someone uses. Just give them time to build their stuff and maybe improve. The market will then decide.

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muskeeto 🦟 2y ago

Buying your bitcoin through the process primal has setup for users is stupid but par for the course for apple users and nostriches who like tying their identities together for no reason.

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Kangu 2y ago

The app looks and feels great, maybe some extra work needs to be put into suggesting a list of relays you might connect to

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alp 2y ago

Interesting, I didn't know this debate even existed. Both sides somehow have a point.

But since this feature is a game changer, it could well have an impact on the expectations of future users. Especially if the Android world follows suit.

But we also have to be aware that some people don't see the entire philosophy of Bitcoin in Nostr, but rather just a free social media network. Free of owners and algorithms. This characteristic is enough for most people to be interested in it.

The future will be interesting with regard to these topics. Old hands must also be prepared to eventually give up the interpretive authority. The development and interpretation of Nostr will gain a momentum of its own as more people use it, and this may not always align with the intentions of the inventor or the pioneers.

We have experienced this before. The World Wide Web is no longer what its inventor, Sir Berners-Lee, had hoped to become. Especially since the HTML5 versus XHTML2 debate, everything has been heading in a completely different direction.

Might happen again.

nostr:note182ymvvrnxk2qar0f03426xd2eyk5x7wcg9emgjpn0qrgnajz8rtsfzghtx