It's Not A "Personal Choice" When Someone Is Killed
Use Plants, Not Animals
#IKITAO #GoVegan
Discussion
A cow isn’t a person.
someone
/sŭm′wŭn″, -wən/
pronoun
An unspecified or unknown person.
Cows are indeed individuals with consciousness and emotions. Scientific evidence confirms they can experience joy, fear, pain, and form social bonds.
They have complex nervous systems that allow them to feel physical and psychological states, just as humans do. This is not anthropomorphizing - it's documented fact. Cows recognize individual humans and other cows, show preferences, and display distinct personalities.
The evidence clearly shows they are sentient beings who can suffer and experience emotions.
Why is that the life of an animal as more value than that of a plant? Why is it OK to kill a plant and eat it and not an animal?
Animals have brains and nervous systems that allow them to feel physical and emotional states. They experience pain, fear, joy, and form social bonds, and they actively try to avoid harm and death.
This is not about opinion - it's about basic biological differences in the capacity to experience suffering.
Why is it relevant, the suffering? It is part of nature. Animals kill other animals. Animals kill plants. Animals kill fungi. Fungi kills animals. Fungi kills plants. And other kingdoms do stuff too. Lots of suffering going on. And that is the way the world works. Why do humans feel they have some moral high ground to save nature from itself? If we as humans accept we are animals like any other, living beings with the same intrinsic value of a fig tree, we wouldn't be so arrogant to be compassionate about other living beings when we are hungry.
Wait until they figure that dying comes with living :deadpoolshock_sm:
I can add that a fungus like candidiasis can basically think. It has an incredibly complex system of sensors from chemical to temperature and is trained to react differently to change pH and sugar levels through a specific set of circumstances can essentially take control of a human's endocrine system until it has apoptified every cell for ATP. It's nuts, but I have it.
And that is why you should pet it and not kill it. Same goes for bacteria and so on and so forth.
Plants send chemical signals to each other when under attack and we don't understand the mechanism. Also not much in the way of domesticated animals that would even be here if it wasnt for is rearing for consumption
If we don't understand it, we can't call them "cuttie wittle things" and then we can kill them, no problem
There's also a LOT of difference between the humans and the cows. Concepts, rationality, long term planning, and such. You make a good point and it's consistent, but consider implications or additional considerations on the ethics higher up in the levels of consciousness.
Is it possible that plants have all these same attributes and we dont understand them?
There are cases where a plant is being consumed so it increases chemical defenses. The surrounding plants also increase chemical defenses. Why would this be if the case if plants are not communicating? Is this evidence that plants have pain, fear, and social bonds? To me it is
Oh good, so you agree abortion is wrong
My post is about animals being killed for food. Your attempt to hijack it with presuppositions isn't going to work here.
I'm only presupposing we are using the same words consistently
I always find it interesting that the knee jerk reaction to someone talking about having a complex understanding of sentience and ethics across species is to assume they couldn't possibly have a complex understanding of sentience and ethics across species.
🎯
Don't go too far, you're still in this kiddy pool. Feed moxie some chopped chicken chunks and come join the discussion 😉
I would love to talk about ethics and the concept and origins of objective morality, but nobody wants to come play in the sandbox.
Let’s agree on objective truth first before even discussing morality. You can’t even pin the modern mind down on 2 + 2 = 4
It's true, but most people on nostr can agree on the fact that there will ever only be 21 mil Bitcoin, so I take this as a given while ironing out the inconsistencies 😅
That doesn't seem at all knee jerk. It is a rather extravagant claim and thus one should ask for ample evidence. To start it is important to understand what the claim actually is and is not. The question of the grounded basis of ethics even among humans is not a slam dunk. Across species seems harder. Characterizing those with questions as having a "knee jerk reaction" doesn't seem very fruitful.
The question is whether you are consistent in your ethics. Are you?
When I see the "Go Vegan World." It is kind of like prosletiz1ation. Like Islam trying to make the whole world Muslim or the Christians, Christian. Make the whole world Vegan. Curious thought but I could never sustain myself on only plants. Close but not quite.
I am a 230 lbs man! it takes energy to move this flesh bag 😀! Is it wrong of me to require meat? In this religion am I committing sin? If so what is the holy book scripture am I in breach of?
Meat eating is not a sin—it is simply ugly. The very idea of killing an animal when beautiful vegetarian food is available, is deeply unaesthetic. If you can justify killing animals, why not humans? After all, these creatures are our family—they are our brothers and sisters on the same evolutionary journey.
Maybe for you. I find it beautiful. Nature in it's plenitude. Unaesthetic?! Please, the sheer number of works of art made with animal killing as a theme, immediately renders your argument mute.
I find just as much beauty in a well executed meat harvest/processing as I do vegetable growing/processing
But I get it, to each his own
Interesting...
1. Except humans are created in the image of God and are distinct from humans.
2. If you don't agree with that then at least have the intellectual honesty of recognizing that animals eat other animals and this is a normal function of life on planet earth. Ever seen Lion King? Watch it again maybe.
3. What about human cultures like Inuits? Veganism is a privileged rich white person take. Go to Argentina and tell them you're a vegan. They'll be confused as shit. Veganism there just means poor. You're effectively living out the life of an impoverished person when actual impoverished people would kill to be able to consume delish, nutrient dense animal products.
Great point! I am deep in nature and nature is brutal! Humans are brutal! We just stick our heads in the sand to ignore this fact.
I saw a baby bear ripped open and eaten by his dad. The boar bears does this so that she can have babies again... absolutely horrid behavior but hey they are bears and they are not noble.
Lions do this too
Distinct from *animals
Why do you need to justify it? Other animals are fine with eating eachother, even the ones that are omnivores and have a "choice".
If you claim humans are special and need to be held on a higher moral standard than animals, then you cannot claim a humans and animals are worth the same (or are "brothers and sisters") since that would be in deep contradiction with your own original premise.
The question should be examined carefully at the nutritional and not aesthetic level.
Our biology shows distinct herbivorous traits. Our saliva contains plant-digesting enzymes absent in carnivores. Our stomach acid is mild (pH 4-5) compared to carnivores (pH 1), and our intestines span 10-11 times our body length, matching other herbivores' ratio of 10-12, while carnivores' intestines are just 3-6 times their body length. Physical features like fleshy lips, flat nails, and small mouths align with herbivorous anatomy. While humans can digest meat, our digestive system's structure and chemistry match the profile of plant-eating animals.
frugivores to be specific.....stop eating grasses 😎😁
So why don't I feel good when I eat plants?
Theres a lot of different reasons that could be the case. Diet is an extremely personal thing and people making generalizations because of intestinal length and the shape of teeth miss the point.
that's one reason why I disagree with Ava's position here.
It's just a theory that all *metabolically healthy* people can thrive on a vegetarian diet.
And a huge majority of people in the modern world are NOT metabolically healthy.
Which doesnt necessarily mean they thrive on an animal based diet
but it is often the case that people with poor nutrient uptake do better with animal fats and animal proteins.
like I said,
its mostly case by case and it's extremely hard to generalize diet.
(full disclosure
damaged myself with drugs and alcohol when young, lived on a vegan or vegetarian diet for 20 years but didn't begin to heal until I added animal products back into my diet
YMMV)
I think I have that poor nutrient uptake. But I think it's getting better. Something was damaging my intestinal lining. Pretty gross, won't go into detail. More meat has been part of healing that.
Wondering if its coffee!
My gut health seems to be ruined since I started drinking espressos.
I feel like theres a subset of people this is def true for.
my gut health is much better when I don't drink coffee.
That could be it... I'm a coffee addict
same. planning on trying to quit tomorrow morning for 10 days before I go on vacation.
Never seems to be a problem if I add a few drops of milk.\
I was havinfg 14 espressos per day a year and a half ago, now i am down to 2.
But I have to either take a complete break or only drink it with milk from now on.
A meal without meat just doesn't feel complete or satisfying. If you then rob the food of cheese aswell, it becomes just pitiful. Meat is the crown and best tasting part of any meal. I understand the repurcussions on the climate and enviroment, but there is hardly anything on this world (people aside) that I would miss more.
Our biology also shows that we are either male or female. Binary. In our genes.
I'm sure plants want to be eaten, that's why they evolved all those chemical defenses, no doubt.
Figures - a primate who sympathizes more with killing plans for food than other animals such as itself.
Every living thing needs sustenance. That would be other living things. The moment you expire you are food for worms too. It is the way of the world.
Beautiful, ugly - human concepts. Reality is as it is.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
You do you!
I could name many things in our society that many of us find ugly that you may disagree with :)
But why shove that down your throat?
You do you! :)
All life consumes life. Even farming plants causes death at scale. I’ve tilled many fields and been party to it myself. It’s not pretty and I do love animals including cows. I try to focus on meat raised well vs no meat at all.
but plants eat animals too! After an animal's body decomposes in the soil, plants absorb the nutrients. ♻️
The bastards! We should kill and eat them all, even the poisonous ones!
Yeah fuck plants. Savages!
Plants also 'farm' microbes to consume through the roots. Check out Dr. James white's work on rhizophagy.
"personal choice"
Notice the first six letters form the word person?
Cows aren't persons. Persons are persons.
Babies are persons.
Infants who breath and have beating hearts are persons.
Sadly the same person practicing veganism would gladly argue for killing human life that has the unfortunate condition of not having vacated the womb yet.
As if the 9 months in the womb it's an amorphous blob and then as it exits the womb suddenly is arbitrarily ascribed personhood and "life"
Sure, eradicate all the GMO plants, stop the destructive monoculture farming, and stop using pesticides -- then, I'll try veganism again. I've done it before - almost a year. I'm open to it. But I'm not open to poisoning myself.
Then there aren't enough plants in the world to feed all the vegan getarians. But sure, let's preach peace and love while murdering innocent lentils!
My food makes me who I am ...
It is not about animals . It is about me !
I prefer milk and veggies ..but I am an 🐘 :-)
I don't agree, but if you don't force it on everyone else... go ahead
The only knowledge is self-knowledge. I cannot force anyone to eat anything—only share my perspective and advocate for those who have no voice.
Recently while teaching about Bitcoin, I have realized that I can't make anyone understand anything. I can only make them know some information. Understanding requires active and independent though process, and whether people will decide to think by themselves or not is totally their own choice. Most of the time it's not even a question of brain capacity. This is why some people are really smart in other aspects of life but fails miserably in understanding Bitcoin.
You definitely should read the book « Cows »
I raise cattle. They feed me, my family, my friends and friends’ families. I feel good about that. And if you feel good about what you eat then carry on.
Thank you Mr Tea
Let’s not forget plants are also living creatures. With respect, only fruits may be used for human nutrition. All else is the same killing.
No
My body my choice!
I'm a carnivore!
life feeds on life feeds on life feeds....
Cows aren't "someone." They are animals. Tasty, tasty animals.
When you eat a plant, does it choose to die?
This article from BBC is interesting: