maybe nostr apps that support DMs should mention that DMs are a mess and that your recipient might never even see it;
maybe when you send one it should show you something like this to set expectations
Discussion
Lol 😂 what an explanation 😁✅
Truth. I've DMed someone before and then after a few days I say dammit lemme send them a legacy NIP-04 DM as well and I then get a response. I default to NIP-17. DMs are very broken. I am hopeful that we can encourage clients to migrate to NIP-104 when it's complete.
I actually think we shouldn't migrate to NIP-104, I think nostr:npub1zuuajd7u3sx8xu92yav9jwxpr839cs0kc3q6t56vd5u9q033xmhsk6c2uc would agree -- MLS is too complex to become the shelling point all apps that want DMs should support; apps shouldn't need to rely on an SDK to support a feature and building MLS from scratch is hard -- I think NIP-104 should remain a very specific feature separate from generally-available DMs -- kinda like Telegram vs Telegram "Secret Chat" or Telegram vs Signal.
I just think we should completely remove NIP-04 DMs from all clients and NIP-17 DMs should not be sendable if the user hasn't configured inbox relays.
I agree with all of this, but the issue isn't if you agree or I agree, the issue is having *all* clients being in the same standard, otherwise DMs remain broken.
i.e. We've had a handful of clients supporting NIP-17 since it's launch, but still two of the most popular clients, Damus and Primal, do not support them.
How do we get past that hurdle?
this might be an unpopular take, but to me, the answer is simple: we don’t. different clients will always implement different standards, and we can’t expect every client to support every feature; in the future, I think it’s reasonable to expect that most users will rely on more than one nostr client, with each implementing different features as best as they can
I think a) those clients should remove DMing until they support NIP-17;
b) clients that do NIP17 should not allow DMing someone without inbox relays setup and perhaps check if the user recently sent a NIP 04 DM recently, if so, let the sender know their DM will probably not be seen
Yeah, I mostly agree. Hopefully it'll end up being widespread but I wouldn't expect every single client that wants some sort of direct message experience to implement MLS based messaging.
I fully agree on nuking NIP-04 DMs and trying to get clients to do the basic checking for the precursors to NIP-17 DMs. I've done that in White Noise, it's not hard.
I was blown away by this & also the inconsistency between clients.
Nip04 is the only reliable way that doesn't require the user to have any special settings/relays. Change my mind. We are not talking about privacy if not reliability
Believe it or not, on the way to the office I was listening to "message in a bottle" (The Police) in the car... is it a sign!?!?
Yeah, I've been burnt many times...
100%
wow, someone I haven't seen in probably 15 years, from a past life, just DMed me on nostr...
wild
who was that idiot that was complaining about nostr DMs earlier today???
Like a pay phone