Avatar
vinney...axkl
2efaa715bbb46dd5be6b7da8d7700266d11674b913b8178addb5c2e63d987331
Engineer at https://opennode.com --- Working on https://catallax.network - decentralized labor/bounty protocol and: https://attestr.app/ - mutual agreements signed on nostr Do you like sharing paywalled content to nostr? Install this extension: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/readtorelay/gfncdikmbmefjjbahjhgkodnhepikecj - https://github.com/vcavallo/ReadToRelay Order print books with bitcoin! https://whitepaperbooks.com

both of yall and the creator of the image above are skating past the questions of labor as private property aka wage slavery and wealth concentration. im just letting yall know that those who critique capitalism are not talking about anything on that list but instead concerned with the fact that labor, housing, health, and policy are commodified under capitalism to create terrible conditions for youth and families to thrive as well as a massive wealth gap between those at the top and us. only a state forged by the CEOs maintains that contradiction.

marxist economics emerged as a critique to the 2 class caste system (the class that hoards capital via the commodification of labor and policy and the working class AKA the haves and the have nots). by regurgitating conservative talking points about what marxism is or isnt and putting me in a category of not being able to think outside of the "shell" of capitalism, you're displaying an inability to engage in a rigorous debate about models of production in society. only when structural incentives change in these production models will the state dissolve and the world move beyond capitalism / socialism to something better. economic freedom should not be reserved only for the capitalists. the laborers deserve it too. we deserve a choice in selling our labor to a CEO, the epitome of centralized power, or using it to better our communities.

that whole absolutism about there being no alternative to capitalism is also disingenous. global capitalism has been mad unstable in the last couple hundred years. along with periodic recessions caused by the excess surplus in production, it had to be saved by SOCIALISM during the great depression via the new deal as well as the 07 - 08 financial crisis via bank bailouts. within these "cycles" of capitalism lies turmoil and tragedy for the every day family. i know people that know people that killed themselves when they lost everything in 07-08.

the puppet masters are the CEOs who exploit the economic model of production to maintain a hegemony over the world and its institutions. these are the same puppet masters that inspired facist dictators through Latin America, Europe, and southeast Asia over the last century to weaponize the state to maintain a two class caste system (laborer aka exploitee and employer/state aka exploiters) in their coutries and squash all dissent.

The new deal wasn't a savoir, it was a disaster

both of yall and the creator of the image above are skating past the questions of labor as private property aka wage slavery and wealth concentration. im just letting yall know that those who critique capitalism are not talking about anything on that list but instead concerned with the fact that labor, housing, health, and policy are commodified under capitalism to create terrible conditions for youth and families to thrive as well as a massive wealth gap between those at the top and us. only a state forged by the CEOs maintains that contradiction.

marxist economics emerged as a critique to the 2 class caste system (the class that hoards capital via the commodification of labor and policy and the working class AKA the haves and the have nots). by regurgitating conservative talking points about what marxism is or isnt and putting me in a category of not being able to think outside of the "shell" of capitalism, you're displaying an inability to engage in a rigorous debate about models of production in society. only when structural incentives change in these production models will the state dissolve and the world move beyond capitalism / socialism to something better. economic freedom should not be reserved only for the capitalists. the laborers deserve it too. we deserve a choice in selling our labor to a CEO, the epitome of centralized power, or using it to better our communities.

that whole absolutism about there being no alternative to capitalism is also disingenous. global capitalism has been mad unstable in the last couple hundred years. along with periodic recessions caused by the excess surplus in production, it had to be saved by SOCIALISM during the great depression via the new deal as well as the 07 - 08 financial crisis via bank bailouts. within these "cycles" of capitalism lies turmoil and tragedy for the every day family. i know people that know people that killed themselves when they lost everything in 07-08.

the puppet masters are the CEOs who exploit the economic model of production to maintain a hegemony over the world and its institutions. these are the same puppet masters that inspired facist dictators through Latin America, Europe, and southeast Asia over the last century to weaponize the state to maintain a two class caste system (laborer aka exploitee and employer/state aka exploiters) in their coutries and squash all dissent.

Labor is not private property.

our critique of capitalism is the inefficient use of resources (including LABOR), not the lack of infinite resources, which labor isnt. capitalism, the current system of distribution of surplus, has been extremely unbalanced for a long time. hours of labor should be used for the betterment of the community, not the surplus of a single CEO. the quality of life measures you are describing (telecomm infrastructure) are a single bullet point in a long list of quality of life measures by the WHO. in the u.s. more is spent on health care per person than other countries and they have the worst health outcomes. price of health care has gone UP, health outcomes has gone DOWN. CEO profit continues to skyrocket. corporate landlords keep housing out of reach for families, leading to an increase in folk sleeping on the street. wealth has not been this concentrated in the world since the years leading up to the great depression. this is the distribution of surplus energy you defend?

housing and care for the sick and babies are unavoidable fundamental elements of people's lives that are commodified and left to the market under capitalism. if capitalism wasnt demanding that we spend more time away from our families than in the home with them? would places like the u.s. have as many single parent households as they do right now? would there be a need to institutionalize the elderly or developmentally disabled in homes if capitalism didnt demand an army of wage slaves spend the majority of their limited time in existence physically building a fortune for the CEOs? its inhumane to boil human beings down to hours of wage slave labor for the CEO's profits and disengenuous to use words like liberty to justify it as if people have a choice to participate in the labor or not.

because the image you shared doesnt touch on any of this, it wont help any critic of capitalism understand why capitalism is not the problem in society today. capitalism and its agents, pure or crony, seek to build a profit off the backs of others just like the plantation owners.

You're saying "should be" a lot. What do you mean by that? Who are you seeking to enforce that upon and by what right can you enforce it? What if someone disagrees? Gulag?

It's very far along the spectrum. It's not physical violence, but it's coercion of private property (where bodily violence is coercion of bodily private property, the ultimate kind from which all else flows)

Replying to Avatar vinney...axkl

What you are describing is not about capitalism or other systems, it's way more fundamental than that. Youre describing having two conflicting need, scarce resources, and limited time: "spend a week generating resources I save for the future" vs "use saved resources while I care of a sick loved one this week" - whether the former one here is working on your own farm, building your own shack, volunteering at the community center (to "earn" social trust), doing a task for someone else, or going to a factory to get paid for hourly labor.

There's no escaping the fact that one (or a collective) must generate a surplus of energy to store if one wants to be able spend any time NOT merely generating energy 100% of their time. Either that surplus is owned by individuals and they're free to generate it and use it how they see fit, or it's owned by some collective entity. In the latter case, some system for the contribution, distribution and physical protection of the shared savings is required - and there's no way to make those systems in such a way that's fair to all and not liable to capture and prone to violence.

You're not critiquing capitalism, you're upset at the existence of the fundamental mathematics of scarce resources. I agree - it's a bummer that we don't have infinite resources. But we don't. and we have to find the best way to handle that fact in a way that doesn't result in constant conflict.

For what it's worth, technological development driven by the engine of profit-seeking capitalism - stunted though it is by State intervention - is brining about the closest thing we've ever seen to "infinite resources". Quality of life goes up while prices come down. A smartphone from 10 years ago is basically free now while it was mind-blowing when it came out. Strangers can have conversations about capitalism across the globe at light speed without censorship. A relatively "poor" kid by today's standards can start a podcast nearly for free... We should expect this to continue to the limits of physics - IF we let it and don't fuck it up with collectivism. You want your infinite resources and perfect equity? Embrace progress and private property.

I swear I just came across this comic today but boy is it apt for this conversation

Abolish taxes. Problem solved.

What you are describing is not about capitalism or other systems, it's way more fundamental than that. Youre describing having two conflicting need, scarce resources, and limited time: "spend a week generating resources I save for the future" vs "use saved resources while I care of a sick loved one this week" - whether the former one here is working on your own farm, building your own shack, volunteering at the community center (to "earn" social trust), doing a task for someone else, or going to a factory to get paid for hourly labor.

There's no escaping the fact that one (or a collective) must generate a surplus of energy to store if one wants to be able spend any time NOT merely generating energy 100% of their time. Either that surplus is owned by individuals and they're free to generate it and use it how they see fit, or it's owned by some collective entity. In the latter case, some system for the contribution, distribution and physical protection of the shared savings is required - and there's no way to make those systems in such a way that's fair to all and not liable to capture and prone to violence.

You're not critiquing capitalism, you're upset at the existence of the fundamental mathematics of scarce resources. I agree - it's a bummer that we don't have infinite resources. But we don't. and we have to find the best way to handle that fact in a way that doesn't result in constant conflict.

For what it's worth, technological development driven by the engine of profit-seeking capitalism - stunted though it is by State intervention - is brining about the closest thing we've ever seen to "infinite resources". Quality of life goes up while prices come down. A smartphone from 10 years ago is basically free now while it was mind-blowing when it came out. Strangers can have conversations about capitalism across the globe at light speed without censorship. A relatively "poor" kid by today's standards can start a podcast nearly for free... We should expect this to continue to the limits of physics - IF we let it and don't fuck it up with collectivism. You want your infinite resources and perfect equity? Embrace progress and private property.

Perfect example. If there was competition among licensing agencies in a truly free market, then those who operate more ethically and fairly could compete and succeed. But instead the State will imprison you or some company will attack you legally (with the backing of the State's laws you never asked for) if you try to create or merely patronize an alternate licensing agency that doesn't have state blessing.

In a free market, an individual discriminated against by one licensing agency would be free to use another or create one of his own. THAT is justice. What are you proposing that is more just than that? A different coercive, violent entity "but wait a good one"? What's the alternative you favor as more just and fair?

Lobbying and campaign donations can't exist without a State. Nobody is enslaved to a paycheck, you can choose to not work if you prefer to have no money. Just the other day a Nostr user was chiding me for not growing all my own food. You could choose the life of a subsistence farmer and not "wage slave" if you want to sacrifice all the luxuries that come with our complex economy.

"Democratically-run" is hardly desirable. That just means 51% get to coerce the other 49% while they call it "fair".

Pure voluntary consent in all things is the only world I'm interested in.

One mixes labor with resources to yield economic goods.

A disguised Ledger-like device where the PIN is entered by pressing a particular series of beads or links on the jewelry. You'd have to have a PIN (and a complex one) or else you're talking about embedding a bearer asset on something that can easily walk away.

Exactly! A VM that exists everywhere and you are identified by a keypair. Our far-future aspirations are very much scifi/ghost in the shell - that kind of thing is really inspiring. We'll have a blog post narratively describing our ideal future world before long :)

I know what you mean about the fun of flipping data around. Even the smallest tasks are satisfying. Like you're a techno-wizard operating a bunch of tiny perfect machines.