Yes, we assume that, which is why we use pkarr and mainline as for pkdns and public key domains.
Scale brings censorship, but scale is a requirement.
It is like a report card and they all failed.
Better they know, so they can improve.
Nostr is clearly worse.
Mainline has many bootstrap vectors, the three famous domains are convenience, not single points of failure.
PKARR provides signed, multi-endpoint records. Nostr relies on trusting third-party relays to actually store and serve your events.
Pubky’s protocol & apps are already open, the polished new app will open once it exists.
So your claims that PKARR “isn’t more censorship-resistant” or “isn’t really open” are disproven.
Thanks for playing.
Every node you’ve ever talked gets cached.
Fresh installs can bootstrap:
- BEP-34 DNS seeds (TXT records listing live router IPs).
- Magnet links with explicit peers.
- Local peer exchange / LAN multicast.
- Manual seed lists shipped in the app (same trick Bitcoin Core uses).
Removing all these vectors simultaneously would require blanket UDP filtering across the Internet, which is a lot harder than blocking a handful of Nostr HTTP relays.
Those three (router.bittorrent.com, dht.transmissionbt.com, dht.libtorrent.org) are convenience helpers baked into popular clients.
The DHT spec allows any UDP host to act as a router node, and they already do (uTorrent, qBittorrent, Aria2, PicoTorrent, etc.)
I made the mistake of thinking nostr might be a place to have interesting conversations, and now I am covered in arrows.
Wow I just found nostr:npub13ndpm2hm9hud4azsq5euhf5mv3d05r90wymwxsd7rdn29609hhvqp60svh. He is so *smart* and not at all "retarded." 😏
I'm not sure if I should bother correcting his misunderstandings of nostr, or his misjudgements of what is and isn't censorable and why, or just ignore him. Does he listen or just talk? We will see.
I like pkarr. I like using Mainline DHT directly even more. I'm using it in Mosaic. But it is also censorable. The bittorrent DHT may not be subject to sybil attacks, but it only has 3 (AFAICT) public well-known on-ramps. Take those three down and people who don't already have a node list can't get on. Nostr is not better for bootstrapping (finding a person's relays) but it isn't much worse. There is a weak centralizing pressure to put relay lists on a the same well known popular relays, but those change over time and the pressure changes over time, and good clients republish to the current popular set which can move. The main issue is that client devs are all over the map in terms of how they choose to deal with the situation, and some aren't even using outbox model. IMHO (emphasis on H) the main benefit of the DHT is someone new with a single key they want to follow can get started without knowing anybody nor any relays/servers.
There is no censorability difference between homeservers in pkarr and relays in nostr. You can run your own, or you can outsource it, in both cases. One isn't more censorship resistant than the other.
When I look at https://github.com/pubky I see among top rpos "pubky-app" which says it is a deprecated repository, and will be replaced with pubky/franky. But pubky/franky does not exist. So IMHO there is no opensource pubky, which means I won't be using it and I recommend against.
Also what the hell is wrong with believing you I am smart?!
You don't think you smart?
You can't see that some people are dumber than you?
Like, cmon. It's just self-awareness.
You are glorifying signing data and asking servers to host it, many less than those on Mainline.
There are millions of nodes that support the bep we use in Mainline.
Wow I just found nostr:npub13ndpm2hm9hud4azsq5euhf5mv3d05r90wymwxsd7rdn29609hhvqp60svh. He is so *smart* and not at all "retarded." 😏
I'm not sure if I should bother correcting his misunderstandings of nostr, or his misjudgements of what is and isn't censorable and why, or just ignore him. Does he listen or just talk? We will see.
I like pkarr. I like using Mainline DHT directly even more. I'm using it in Mosaic. But it is also censorable. The bittorrent DHT may not be subject to sybil attacks, but it only has 3 (AFAICT) public well-known on-ramps. Take those three down and people who don't already have a node list can't get on. Nostr is not better for bootstrapping (finding a person's relays) but it isn't much worse. There is a weak centralizing pressure to put relay lists on a the same well known popular relays, but those change over time and the pressure changes over time, and good clients republish to the current popular set which can move. The main issue is that client devs are all over the map in terms of how they choose to deal with the situation, and some aren't even using outbox model. IMHO (emphasis on H) the main benefit of the DHT is someone new with a single key they want to follow can get started without knowing anybody nor any relays/servers.
There is no censorability difference between homeservers in pkarr and relays in nostr. You can run your own, or you can outsource it, in both cases. One isn't more censorship resistant than the other.
When I look at https://github.com/pubky I see among top rpos "pubky-app" which says it is a deprecated repository, and will be replaced with pubky/franky. But pubky/franky does not exist. So IMHO there is no opensource pubky, which means I won't be using it and I recommend against.
All of Pubky protocol, and all live apps with users, are already open-sourced. Please stop looking for lazy ways to discredit us.
The Pubky-app repo is the app used in the beta test.
Franky is a new app under construction that will also be open-sourced when it works.
We published our own research, and method, on Mainline censorship resistance.
Nostr does not even come close to what pkarr provides, and the same holds true for our indexer and ssg method.
https://medium.com/pubky/mainline-dht-censorship-explained-b62763db39cb
nostr:npub13ndpm2hm9hud4azsq5euhf5mv3d05r90wymwxsd7rdn29609hhvqp60svh certainly doesn't need my help to deal with this kind of cyberbullying against him, regardless of whether his attitude is annoying or not.
It's just that I don't like these things regardless of who is involved, especially on Nostr, which I consider a happy place.
We are better than that.
It's a bad trend.
#my2sats
The link is for a total rewrite we are working on, it will be open-sourced once it actually works.
Pubky.app requires zero personal data of any kind, you are a liar.
All apps require terms of service, including Nostr apps. In fact, relays should be providing them too. (some Terms protect users, all terms are to clarify the relationship between the provider and user)
The Pubky Ring app is open source and available for sideloading if you dont trust Google/Apple. You also can use pubky.app without Ring at all.
Look, we're still in beta, and we have a lot bugs & work to do, but we aren't fucking around here.
From ChatGPT:
**Why #Nostr and #Pubky should collaborate**
🔑 Core idea:
Both want to build an open, censorship-resistant ecosystem for identity, publishing, and interactions.
📡 Nostr is a minimal, open protocol for sharing cryptographically signed messages via public relays — it doesn’t include strong identity, reputation, or discovery layers by design.
🪪 Pubky adds verified digital identities and reputation layers through verifiable credentials, helping users prove who they are and build trust in a decentralized way.
🤝 Why it makes sense:
Verified identities: Pubky gives Nostr users portable, verifiable identities that work across networks.
Better discovery: Pubky helps people find trustworthy users and reliable content on Nostr more easily.
Stronger ecosystem: Pubky doesn’t change how Nostr works but complements it with tools for trust, reputation, and discovery — creating a more robust user experience without sacrificing decentralization.
cc nostr:npub13ndpm2hm9hud4azsq5euhf5mv3d05r90wymwxsd7rdn29609hhvqp60svh
It's better than the other Pubky descriptions some people post, but note that it's idea of collaboration is basically that Nostr should convert to using Pubky :)
Pubky does not use IPFS in any way.
AI won't give you good answers unless you seed it with a full context of Pubky docs, etc.
GM nostr!
Your understanding of nostr is incorrect. What you described is the same thing as web servers.
The reason I am here is because I enjoy sharing my experience and challenging myself.
Someday, people will stop trying to strap bullshit onto Bitcoin.
nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 would you say it is fair to classify me or our work as "knock-off nostr"?
Hey come find out so you can stop saying dumb shit about it, and me, just because I pointed out some nostr problems.
You would be surprised how many people just want to argue something out with me at events.
It is an awesome way to interact once you can control your emotions!
Why is there no money here?
I thought zaps and valueforvalue were the mission?
I am sorry that you cant read more than a few words at a time, nor recognize the irony of your behavior, considering the content of my post.
Anyway, I will happily refute any actual arguments, as well as defend any of my own.
But if you just wanna insult each other, well, zzzzzzzz
I am defending the thread topic, as always.
Surely you noticed I come to socials to posit arguments :)
Have you considered why it is this way? And what that means?
The shitcoiners were right about there being a limit to how much toxicity people will put up with when interacting with Bitcoiners.
We've become pretty lazy and shitty at representing Bitcoin, in many ways... and to each other.
The cultism is severe and worth acknowledging.
Saylor's gift to Bitcoin was showing shitcoiners how to be evil with it.
Haha, you sure this is how you wanna do this?
There's another path and I am happy to walk it with you.
Well it works for you so i guess there is no problem and primal is perfect!