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Paul
90cca4db5ad5a9359d88ed8a6710df461d73a7e51b02e633016aefc05b130ac6
Christian, husband of npub1e2rd2k45ym2jmctnysfadxumrvrr57vqj69ck6trt2y62c40r0kqs9lx8t, father, aspiring homesteader stuck in the city, Austrian Economics enthusiast, Austro-Libertarian anarchist, & Bitcoin pleb. Read your Bible and https://mises.org

I know I’d use it to cover every single bit of taxes. So many good causes need money to actually solve problems and the government ain’t one of them.

I never expected to truthfully utter the sentence “I have an award-winning trad wife” but here we are… nostr:note1rfhv9uetngfanxuwnzvlhj3y9e6jkqsf69adry0hx52jdylhsrvqg78943

Just got back from the DC screening of Dirty Coin. If you get a chance to see it I highly recommend doing so.

https://www.dirtycointhemovie.com/

Also if you're in the DC/Maryland/Virginia area check out the Bitcoin District meetup for more events!

https://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-district/

#DirtyCoin

#BitcoinDistrict

It’s not your job to save people, it’s your job to speak truth and do right. The people who are going to come through better than most are the ones who decided to listen. Maybe not to you but to someone.

With any kind of evangelism you’re going to fail a whole lot more than you succeed, it’s just something that comes with the territory. That can definitely be depressing, but I’d suggest reading something like the old Isaiah’s Job article. It’s a whole lot better for your mental health to stick to a “reach the remnant” mindset rather than “reach the masses”, the latter will always disappoint.

https://mises.org/mises-daily/isaiahs-job

Replying to Avatar Mark Sea

Context

https://x.com/martyrmade/status/1831069714296258844?s=46&t=OJyIOlwxd3cYeYEMyvs-jw nostr:note1rfyk5748gt5cvxwugc3lz4nj25fkmmjynj3utff0cue00vup0r8saag0dc

The founding myth of the current empire is that there were “good guys” in WWII, when in fact there were only bad guys, worse guys, and worst guys. Anything that challenges the myth that the victors were the “good guys” is attacked ruthlessly, as the WWII example is always held up as justification by the state and its media to conduct every military assault since.

Looks like the auto-post from within Fountain is missing a space 😅

Fast food burgers are overrated. The best burgers come from hole in the wall mom & pop places. I’ve never had a burger that tops this place.

https://www.farmersdaughterwv.com/

Replying to Avatar Marakesh 𓅦

I believe he does explain his position more fully, and you might consider this podcast worth a listen. Here is an excerpt pertaining to your question:

"The mistake here lies in the order of operations, assuming that virtue is the result of liberty rather than understanding that liberty can only be enjoyed by a people who have first cultivated a high degree of virtue.

"...For Machiavelli, the key factor that made Republican government possible was the virtue of the people. Under a monarchy, the people didn't need to practice a high degree of self discipline. The king provided order, and that order allowed the people to prosper even if they didn't have the character to rule themselves.

"Order is more necessary for human flourishing than freedom, a lesson that many who have always lived under the benefit of a stable civilization often forget.

"...Ordered liberty is not the freedom to pursue every base desire, but the ability to pursue virtue inside a shared understanding of the good. That's why Machiavelli agreed with Aristotle that virtue requires community. The individual is not virtuous in isolation but must exercise that virtue by pursuing the good in relation to friends, family, religion, and business.

"Without order, we can't have community or understand our role inside of it.

"Order is a precondition for community.

"Community is a precondition for virtue.

"Liberty is the rare and delicate fruit of a society which is virtuous."

So it sounds to me like MacIntyre says first you need order, which leads to community, which can bring about virtue, and from which Liberty may be possible.

If these are examples of his thinking then I believe my original critique was spot on.

TL;DR - The more thoughtful right wingers, and I would count Auron MacIntyre among them, would do well to read more Hans-Hermann Hoppe. https://cdn.mises.org/What%20Must%20Be%20Done_7.pdf

"The mistake here lies in the order of operations, assuming that virtue is the result of liberty rather than understanding that liberty can only be enjoyed by a people who have first cultivated a high degree of virtue."

The mistake is in the order of operations, but it is not mine. Virtue without liberty is forced virtue, which as I said originally, is an oxymoron. Forced virtue is simply unthinking compliance, and unthinking compliance is not a virtue. Even God wants us to think as we attempt to comply with His law. However, order and virtue are not the same thing and we should consider the two separately.

"For Machiavelli, the key factor that made Republican government possible was the virtue of the people. Under a monarchy, the people didn't need to practice a high degree of self discipline. The king provided order, and that order allowed the people to prosper even if they didn't have the character to rule themselves."

This is exemplary of the propensity of right wingers to use the word "order" without defining it. Order is the degree to which individuals can be comfortable that their person and property are not in imminent danger of being violated. Some kings may have provided some degree of order at some times by providing a level of protection of persons and property from violators other than the king and his agents, but it is important to remember that each king is also to a lesser or greater degree an agent of disorder himself. The private thieves and murders which the king would, on occasion, protect individuals against were not the only violators of person and property, but the king himself obtained his vast wealth by performing the same type of violations he claimed to protect against.

"Order is more necessary for human flourishing than freedom, a lesson

that many who have always lived under the benefit of a stable civilization often forget."

Order is more necessary for human *survival* than freedom, but for human *flourishing* liberty is more important. Order predates widespread material prosperity, which is what I assume is meant by human flourishing in this context. If order alone were sufficient for increases in material prosperity then we should expect the historical record to reflect material prosperity increases commensurately with increases in order, and this is demonstrably not the case. Order is necessary to maintain what has been achieved, but to go beyond that and build something new liberty is required. Increases in material prosperity require trying new ideas or techniques for production, which is the job of the entrepreneur. Neither a king nor a modern nation state can effectively do the job of an entrepreneur and entrepreneurs can only exist within a framework of not only order but also liberty, as they must be free to experiment and take risk (liberty) while also perceiving no imminent threat to their person or property (order).

"Without order, we can't have community or understand our role inside of it. Order is a precondition for community. Community is a precondition for virtue. Liberty is the rare and delicate fruit of a society which is virtuous."

I don't think this framing is correct, I think this is a far more accurate summary:

Order and community are inextricably linked, there is a causality going in both directions. Order cannot be obtained by an individual alone, nor can a community be maintained if people are not secure in their persons and property to a large degree. Community and order are both preconditions for liberty, as without the assurances of security in person and property (both physical security as well as normative security) provided by the community then the exercise of liberty is impossible as the struggle to survive is all-consuming. Liberty is a prerequisite for virtue as virtue can only truly be achieved when the vast majority of the individuals within the community choose to be virtuous of their own volition. This choice is only possible when unvirtuous choices are both presented (liberty) and declined (true virtue), otherwise any virtue is merely forced virtue, which is not virtue at all.

It is certainly true that liberty without virtue is ruinous. However what I’ve never heard the right wingers making this argument explain is how you can build a virtuous society without liberty?

Liberty is a necessary (though insufficient) prerequisite for virtue, because virtue cannot be real without both the availability of the path to dishonor and the choice on the part of the individual not to take that path. Forced virtue is an oxymoron, anyone arguing for it has the causality reversed at best.