I would definitely be a proponent of sphere sovereignty, so you have me pegged there, but only because I believe it is biblical. I also don’t think Kuyper would have denied that the world can be divided between the Kingdom of God/heaven, and the kingdom of Satan/darkness. I think he would have readily embraced those categories and recognized that there are professing members of the church, who are actually part of the kingdom of darkness, and that the civil government is a mixed bag of both members of the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. It is not possible to say that anyone who is part of the temporal sphere of the civil government is surely a member of the kingdom of darkness any more than it is possible to say that anyone who is part of the visible church is surely a member of the Kingdom of God.

Now, you seem to be assuming a very different definition of ἐκκλησία than Scripture itself, and then stating that Romans 13 is speaking of the leaders of this voluntary assembly that supposedly referred to a “local body that governed cities in Paul’s day.” However, let us take a look at how Scripture actually uses the term ἐκκλησία.

We could look at how the word was used outside of Scripture, and there you might have a point, since it did refer to the governing bodies of Roman cities. However, we are interested in what Scripture means when it uses that term, and Paul is almost certainly using ἐκκλησία in the same sense as the Septuagint, which was commonly in use at the time of Christ and the writing of the New Testament. Many of the places where the New Testament quotes the Old are direct quotations from the Septuagint.

There are 96 times that the Septuagint uses the term ἐκκλησία. This will already be effectively a long-form note, so we will only look at a sampling to get a good handle on how it is being used.

We see it used in Deuteronomy 4:10, where Moses relates how God had instructed him to “Gather the people to me [at Horeb], that I may let them hear my words, so that they may learn to fear me all the days that they live on the earth, and they may teach their children so.” The word translated to English here as “gather” is ἐκκλησία. To whom is it referring? The leadership of a city or even of the Israelites? No. To the people of God gathered at a particular place; namely Horeb.

Another significant usage we see in Deuteronomy is as part of a phrase, “day of the ἐκκλησία,” which is repeated in Deuteronomy 9:10, 10:4, and 18:16, all of which are referring to when the people of God gathered at Horeb and received the moral law written on tablets of stone.

We also see ἐκκλησία used at the dedication of the temple by Solomon in 1 Kings 8:14, where it says the king “turned around and blessed all the ἐκκλησία of Israel, while all the ἐκκλησία of Israel stood.” Again, we don’t see this term referring to the voluntary leadership of a city, but to the people of God gathered together.

We see the term used by the psalmist in Psalm 22:22, where he says, “I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the ἐκκλησία I will praise you.” Here ἐκκλησία is referring, as a parallelism, to the psalmist’s brothers, those “who fear the Lord,” who are “the offspring of Jacob,” the “offspring of Israel” (verse23). So again, not referring to the leadership of a city.

When looking at other uses of ἐκκλησία in the Old Testament, it becomes clear that it can refer to any gathering of people together, for good or ill, whether they be people in any kind of authority or not.

With this background in mind, let’s look at the usage of ἐκκλησία in the New Testament and see if any of them support this idea that the voluntary leadership of a city is what is in mind.

We see Jesus himself use the term in Matthew 16:18, when Peter confesses “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus responds saying, “...and I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my ἐκκλησία, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Now, is Jesus speaking merely of a group of leaders, or is he speaking of his people as a whole here? Given how his disciples would have understood the usage of the term ἐκκλησία in the Old Testament, I would wager it is the latter.

We see ἐκκλησία again in Acts 2:47, speaking of the results of Peter’s sermon at Pentecost. Remember, about 3,000 souls were saved as a result of that sermon, and then we see that they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer (verse 42), and other evidences of vibrant faith and love of the brethren (verses 43-47a). The chapter wraps up saying, “And the Lord added to the ἐκκλησία daily such as should be saved.” Who is ἐκκλησία referring to, here? To the 3,000 who came to faith through Peter’s preaching. It is to their number that God was adding daily those who were saved afterward.

In Acts 8:1, it speaks of “great persecution against the ἐκκλησία which was at Jerusalem,” which resulted many early believers scattering “throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria.” This is most certainly not talking about the leadership of the city of Jerusalem, but rather of the persecution against all of the Christians gathered in Jerusalem.

Again, in Acts 16:5, we see that after Paul and Timothy delivered the decision of the council at Jerusalem (chapter 15) to those in Derbe and Lystra and other cities, “...the ἐκκλησίαι were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.” This is speaking of the Christians gathered in those cities, not the voluntary leadership of those cities, who were often at odds with Paul and his preaching.

How about we get out of Acts and look at how Paul himself used the term ἐκκλησία?

Paul addressed his first letter to the Corinthians saying, “To the ἐκκλησία of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ…” Was Paul writing to the leadership of this city? No. He specifies that he is writing to all believers in that city, and who are united through their faith to all believers in “every place.”

A particularly interesting usage is in 1 Corinthians 11:18, where Paul says, “In the first place, when you come together as a ἐκκλησία, I hear that there are divisions among you.” Then he goes on to describe how they were dividing by socio-economic class when taking the Lord’s Supper, and treating it as a regular meal, such that some went hungry while others got drunk. This is clearly speaking of coming together for worship when Paul says “when you come together as a ἐκκλησία.”

In Galatians 1:13, Paul confesses that he “persecuted the ἐκκλησία of God.” In Ephesians 5 we see Paul speak of the parallel between husbands and wives and Christ and his ἐκκλησία. In Colossians 4, he encourages the Colossians have the epistle read also in the ἐκκλησία of the Laodiceans. In 1 Thessalonians 2:14 he tells them that they have become “imatators of the ἐκκλησίαι of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea” by way of their persecution from their own countrymen. In 1 Timothy 3 Paul asks, “if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s ἐκκλησία?”

In none of these passages is there any indication that Paul is referring to any kind of voluntary leadership of a city, or even just to the leadership of the Christians in a particular place. It always refers to a group of believers who gather together for worship.

Now, let’s see if this definition fits with applying Romans 13 to this group, or even the leaders of this group.

First, Paul refers to those to whom the reader is to submit as “governing authorities” or “higher powers.” The words here are not used anywhere to speak of ecclesiastical leaders. Indeed, one of the only other places we see the word governing/higher (ὑπερέχω) is expressly referring to civil authority, rather than ecclesiastical. 1 Peter 2:13 and 14 says, “Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.” This sounds very similar to what Paul is saying in Romans 13, does it not?

The next word Paul uses to refer to those he has in mind is found in verse 3, where he says, “For rulers (ἄρχοντες) are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.” This term is never used to refer to ecclesiastical leadership, either, but is most commonly translated as ruler, prince, or magistrate.

By contrast, the New Testament uses a couple of terms to refer to ecclesiastical leadership: elder (πρεσβύτερος) and overseer (ἐπίσκοπος). Neither of these terms is anywhere to be found in Romans 13.

Finally, Paul speaks of these higher powers and rulers as “not bearing the sword in vain.” It is assumed by the Apostle that the rulers he speaks of have the authority to use violent force as they carry out their duty. Is the sword something God has given to ecclesiastical leaders? Should the pastor and elders be performing capital punishment? Either we must conclude this is the case, or we must conclude that it is some other form of authority Paul is referring to, and all evidence points to civil authority.

Now, your article rightly points out that civil governments often fail to uphold the purpose for which God ordained them. You have erred in believing this is proof Paul must not be talking about civil authorities, though. It is simply a matter that we only have a duty to obey them in so far as they do uphold this purpose, and we should do what we can to influence them toward that goal, including voting, or even running for office ourselves.

I see you and I raise you. This was the first desktop PC in my house as a kid:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Tandy_1000_computer_original.jpg" class="embedded-image" loading="lazy">/460px-Tandy_1000_computer_original.jpg&w=750&q=80

The Tandy 1000. I still remember playing Battle Chess on this thing.

To apply this to all governing authorities seems like a blanket statement that is not supported by Scripture. The Apostle Paul clearly taught in Romans 13 that God has ordained the existence of civil authorities of some form, and explicitly given them the sword "who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer."

Paul was not speaking of some idealized government when he said this, either. He was speaking of the corrupt Roman empire.

That being the case, I would much rather have a government structure that involves the people voting for their leaders than one that doesn't.

Jesus rules over his church, throughout the world, and he rules over all else, including civil authorities, via his sovereign providence. Ruling over all things through his church is something we look forward to when he returns and we can finally beat our swords into plowshares. That day is not today.

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#biblestr

Fair, but you have yet to establish that voting, or taking time to make an informed vote can be accurately defined as being "distracted by the devil."

There is definitely an opportunity cost to taking that time, as you mentioned, but the same can be said of ANYTHING we do with our time. The time we are thinking about what we will eat for dinner is also time we aren't thinking about how to keep those in civil office from influencing our lives, too. Doesn't mean it's not time we either need or ought to spend.

Sincerely, someone with neither a shiny car or a fancy house.

There is certainly a case to be made for voting being a participation in tyranny, but I am not sure I would use that verse to support the claim. I also think it depends very heavily on who you are voting for, and why. Not even a red vs blue, thing. I would not say that there is one objectively clear answer for who would be more tyrannical such that someone could have any leg to stand on by saying, "If you don't vote for Trump, you're voting for more tyranny!" Fact is, you may have just as much tyranny, just of a different brand.

Rather, it depends on the individual perception of the particular voter. If they BELIEVE that a particular candidate will not be tyrannical, or will even be less tyrannical than the others, voting for that candidate is not morally wrong, even if they are 100% incorrect in their perception. Much better for them to actually be informed and have an accurate expectation of what that candidate would actually do in office, though.

Circling back to that particular verse; the "unfruitful works of darkness" mentioned in Ephesians 5:11 is almost certainly referring to the specific examples Paul gave in verses 3-5. That is, sexual immorality, impurity, covetousness, filthiness, foolish talk, and crude joking. I don't see voting, or anything at all to do with our relation to the civil magistrate, mentioned. As always, a text without its context is a pretext for a proof-text.

Live now, streaming #FinalFantasy I for #ThrowbackThursday!

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#gamestr #streamstr #zapstream #retrogaming #RPG

30 minutes until #ThrowbackThursday streaming #FinalFantasy!

#gamestr

Tonight is my weekly #ThrowbackThursday stream, continuing with #FinalFantasy at 6:30pm Pacific Daylight Time.

Come hang out as I make my way to the Earth Cave and hopefully get the first of the four crystals lit back up!

#gamestr #streamstr #zapstream #retrogaming #RPG

Live for another bonus #Minecraft stream. Just hanging for a couple hours before I have to head out for the evening. Trying to get more iron and DIAMONDS!

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Going live for another 2 hour #Minecraft bonus stream in 15 minutes!

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I am using a webcam and OBS. Pretty straightforward setup. Just need to add the webcam and game as a media source in OBS, then plug in your stream key from zap.stream and you are off to the races.

Not today. Usually on Mondays I stream on the Sovereign Craft server, which is a Bitcoin Minecraft server.

Today was on a single player world.

I'm live! Streaming early game #Minecraft on a new world!

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#gamestr #streamstr #zapstream #Minecraftstr

Bonus #Minecraft stream in 10 minutes!

Tatum got me nostalgic for the early game watching his stream yesterday, and I haven't gotten to see many of the latest features added in recent updates.

Come hang out while I explore and do all the early game survival stuff.

#gamestr #streamstr #zapstream #Minecraftstr

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I figured that's what happened. I am always paranoid that people have been chatting and I am just missing it because it stopped refreshing, so I manually refresh from time to time, only to find out that no, everyone's just lurking.

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Resolve the differences about whether we should ask Mary or various saints to pray for us, about which both sides have adamant convictions. Resolve the differences about whether only professing believers should be baptized or also their children. Resolve the differences about whether Scripture alone is the standard of truth, or also tradition. Add to that the vast number of other theological convictions that prevent organizational unity.

And make sure your resolution is not coming from a centralized human authority structure. Would you take away the right of these Christians to hold a wide variety of convictions, all based on their belief that their view is what God commands of them? Only Christ has that right to set things straight when he returns, not any organizational structure made by man, which can and has often been corrupted.

Until then, freedom of conscience and denominationalism is the way forward.

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Maybe the guys at nostr:nprofile1qqst4qyeqenw7zm0fwjsty68h6cnys5jre2xd8ngqpjv5a2j26s78fspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucm0d9hx7uewd9hj75a0pev can get you sorted? They are usually pretty responsive.

Christianity is not like Bitcoin, though. It does not need to maintain a single, uninterrupted chain (denomination) that everyone agrees with and is a member of.

It only needs to maintain consensus around one fundamental truth that all Christian denominations agree with and can therefore continue to call each other "brother" despite other differences of lesser importance that prevent them from maintaining organizational unity.

Namely the gospel of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord to all those who have faith in him as the Son of God and in his atoning work on the cross for forgiveness of sin.

That's the only consensus I need to consider someone my brother in the faith, even if our other theological differences would prevent us from realistically worshipping together until Christ's return, when he will correct all of our errors and misinterpretations of his Word.

Of course, the caveat is to stay away from the mainline denomination (PCUSA) which has fully bought into the woke BS.

OPC, BPC, URC and a few others out there are the way to go.

We should have you out for a meetup some time. We have a decent amount of Bitcoiners out this way.

Not all Christianity is modern or woke. Some of us still hold to the ecumenical creeds and reformed confessions and are based AF.

Check out nostr:nprofile1qqsqv6x9aeg8gd9nxw2qxuvnzakvg7qtgt8ecqpj6vwcp0656ey70hqpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgawaehxw309ajxj6mpd9hhxvf4xymjumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tc3y25qt if you have a chance. We stream to zap.stream for Sunday worship.

I'll hang for a couple hours, before I have to go wrangle a bunch of teenagers.