Yes these would be significant indicators. But even these can be widely varied when you get into concrete examples:

1.a Control over development to prevent/stall soft forks or features. (accepted risk of decentralization, likely to happen whether naturally or by “capture”)

1.b Control over development through dev funding and attempting hard fork. (Unlikely, and will cause extreme disruption and would be the worst battle and economic fallout of Bitcoin’s history. Blocksize war but with Wall Street players)

2. This is why I’ve been talking about DATUM non stop and have called it on numerous occasions the most important project in Bitcoin currently.

3. This is not even reasonable to define and is subject to massive guesswork. The social sphere is *always* in flux and there will be ebbs and flows on all issues/values, imo. Theres also some significant sampling problems that make this hard to assess - ex. There are 10 people talking about self custody in a room. 490 people enter the room. There are now 20 people talking about self custody, and 480 talking about stickers. Did the percent of people talking about self custody fall from 100% to 4%? Or did the number of people who care about self custody double?

4. Yes, but must consider it in the context of number 3 and 1 and how they would skew an apparent, but less real, change in those things. In other words, we could have more people caring and developing toward the core values of Bitcoin than ever, but the total loss of that focus in the reference client developers and 90% of “the community” talking about stickers. So it would APPEAR like total loss of values, but it would only be because we are being too targeted and centralized in *where and how* we expect to see them manifest.

First off, these are generic, broad concerns that apply to various degrees perpetually, but “ETFs are here and Bitcoin treasuries have captured bitcoin” aren’t explained by just listing possible ways in which influence *could* be used.

Decentralization isn’t the absence of means of influence, it’s when a system has so many variant ways that influence can be both used and then defended against, that no single avenue dominates unilaterally.

That said I’ll give a few caveats about the ones you bring up anyway:

1. Holding bitcoin doesn’t not mean control over the protocol or network. And there’s no major concern about the current distribution. Institutions were always going to be here at some point.

2. This is a boogie man very often carried out that is based on common ignorance about markets and what “manipulation” actually is.

3. This has nothing to do with any of the above. It’s just its own issue and I talk about it constantly because it’s actually a problem that exists and is tangible.

4. Regulations have gone lax. I’m more concerned of complacency because things are going our way on that front.

In short, you just listed generic ways in which there is influence over various elements of the social sphere or of the various infrastructure used by businesses or institutions. But this is a vast chasm away from “bitcoin has been captured.”

I never made the claim that there aren’t dozens of players who could influence things, who operate various parts of the infrastructure, or that there are certain jurisdictions that can set some standards for good or bad - to the contrary that’s exactly what I am and have argued and talk about all the time. But I’m talking about people who literally say “ETFs have bought some bitcoin, bitcoins treasury companies are buying some, therefore bitcoin is captured.”

And I’m pointing out, correctly, that this is a nonsense take, and isn’t anything of substance.

————

If none of this is getting through, I’ll use an analogy:

- Let’s say we’ve been talking about various risks to bitcoin mining for years. We have real conversations about which pools present which risks, which jurisdictions pose concerns, which protocols allow for block hijacking, etc. Actual substance around the mining problem.

- Blackrock makes a mining pool that gets a few percent of the hashrate. Say 10%

- People just start instantly claiming Blackrock destroyed Bitcoin. It’s captured, we’re screwed, 51% attacks. The end.

- I ask for what the various risks and likelihood are.

- Someone screams at me like I’m retarded and says “DUH They’ll 51% attack you moron!”

- I say, well yeah but that’s a vague category of thing that CAN happen, you have presented no *substance* here as to how Blackrock now has control over everything.

This is what I’m getting at. There’s this weird religion that people who hate Wall Street have, who actually seem to “anti worship” them. They think they are evil, but importantly, they think they are evil *gods* who have total control over whatever they involve themselves in by virtue or simply showing up. And they can’t seem to grasp that they’ve said nothing at all.

I have said absolutely nothing of the sort and I can't possibly understand how you pulled that from anything I have said. I simply ask for someone to give some evidence or some actual useful information as to what "captured" means and how anything that has happened has resulted in "capture." But that's never given, they just say "this exists, thus captured," literally without defining what that means or how what they point out means it...

Which your comment is another decent example of. You don't back it up, you just use my lack of acceptance of this default, reasonless logic, as evidence of some absurd statement like "you just think there can never be any negative impact," a literal light years leap away from demanding some sort of evidence as to what the negative impact is in any material sense and how it means bitcoin is "captured."

I don’t think there is a single part of your comment that wasn’t 100% imagined from thin air. But don’t mind me keep going 😆👍🏻

🤡

Exactly, but worse when you really get into it; They are letting their make believe future get in the way of a revolutionary breakthrough that doesn’t look exactly like they expect… because their imagination isn’t reality.

Any OG that thinks it’s been captured because some ETFs were launched and Wall Street wants to buy some is stupid and I hope they sell. We lose some OGs who don’t get the bigger picture every cycle. We lost way more to Bcash. Good riddance, they will readopt it anyway when they realize that the global infrastructure was always going to operate on the soundest, most accessible money, and that they let it go for literal trash.

Their ignorance is, and always has been, good for the rest of us.

nostr:nevent1qqsxtezsegut8fe9m8pcdqy0lwfl0zna9sn7sgcgx06qz6l8a6ue3acpupmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhj2v3swaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9ujnyvrhwden5te0wfjkccte9eekjctdwd68ytnrdakj7ffjxpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuvrcvd5xzapwvdhk6te9xgc8wumn8ghj7mnxwfjkccte9eshqup0y5erqamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7tjwvhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwv4u8getj0ghxxmmd9ujnyvrhwden5te0vejkuunfwgkhxtnwda6x7umgdyh8w6twa5nxlh

If you can find a Nostr feature that feels like sex I’ll invest everything I own. 🤣

That’s actually another great option but I think the universality of using nostr:nprofile1qqsd79ejwuvz7v246danxqs3hgw7f2q4qrqz6x27je8er0nhfmykwzqpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0zmuqsg with traditional login gives a more seamless experience. But honestly if it can be done as smoothly with simple generating key and saving to keychain then absolutely make that a default option as well

Of course, and this is something that anybody comfortable with using and securing their raw keys should do. It’s what I do as often as I can. But that isn’t how you get a general audience into a new ecosystem. It gives them multiple homework assignments before they have even started, which just makes it dead in the water.

I still think how we interact with and treat keys are our biggest barriers, hands down, and way too many people seem to just hand wave it away.

I think you’ve made a miscalculation in your understanding of how you move from one standard to another, and how you build something better that actually has the chance to become dominant.

If you think it’s going to happen because everyone in the world is suddenly going to be comfortable and competent pasting raw private keys from one app to the next, you’ve made a serious error, imo.

I’m going to repeat this incessantly until we realize this is one of the best set of trade offs we could possibly have for onboarding new people to Nostr.

nostr:nprofile1qqsd79ejwuvz7v246danxqs3hgw7f2q4qrqz6x27je8er0nhfmykwzqpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0zmuqsg nostr:nprofile1qqs9xtvrphl7p8qnua0gk9zusft33lqjkqqr7cwkr6g8wusu0lle8jcpzfmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82cspr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0ndcuy7 nostr:nprofile1qqsraldwhvwcjgltmxwfu7kw8dqef2692yhzheuurd7k3kfy8cxjdqgpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejszxthwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mglylm0v nostr:nprofile1qqs24yz8xftq8kkdf7q5yzf4v7tn2ek78v0zp2y427mj3sa7f34ggjcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7fjgzxw nostr:nprofile1qqsfhc97plq8j4yzxv33v98yu8hunu5tpkeesqg7lmk0qhl9wrja6vcpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejs7qxss0 nostr:nprofile1qqsqlc933dxm7rs25s8u63eqnv4ynv6rrlz98drqal85tjst694adtqprdmhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8xetdd9ek7mpwv3jhvqgjwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxn9s0rj nostr:nprofile1qqs8zwtccvy5pqdnfl8j74y3wvascgnj3nfm0f55v5vagr6lppvc47qprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuem909ek2u3wve6kuep0qyt8wumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetjv4kxz7fwvdhk6tc8yh7a5 nostr:npub1wnwwcv0a8wx0m9stck34ajlwhzuua68ts8mw3kjvspn42dcfyjxs4n95l8

nostr:nevent1qqsgcw3uk78jxul6dr5vhqcaelgyahtq5f9xp4lrqf45dhc9uz6uvhspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhglkmyn0

Correct

Check out how nostr:nprofile1qqsd79ejwuvz7v246danxqs3hgw7f2q4qrqz6x27je8er0nhfmykwzqpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0zmuqsg works. But there would certainly be a degree of trust due to how Apple structures their “Secure Enclave”, but in my opinion it’s a far less trade off than asking normies to deal with raw keys safely. And honestly people learn stuff when they get burned. Let them get burned in a way that actually matters and where there is actually a sovereign alternative.

Trade offs across the board are an order of magnitude better, imo, and it drops the barrier to entry by 99% for the overwhelming majority of users.

Can’t you do the equivalent with “sign in with Google” that does a similar process? I don’t know unfortunately because I only use my android for random app testing and stuff

If you think you do that by ignoring what those people use and how they use it, then I think you’ve made an error.

Also you should look into how nostr:nprofile1qqsd79ejwuvz7v246danxqs3hgw7f2q4qrqz6x27je8er0nhfmykwzqpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0zmuqsg works so you understand the trade offs and security.

Of course you don’t, you’re on Nostr at the stage where people are still using raw keys. But a huge number of people do.

I’m not suggesting they can and don’t know enough about the privacy implications to say one way or the other. I’m suggesting that most people don’t care, and it’s the best option available while giving them the UX they want and possibly as close to the privacy and security as possible.

What you suggest means that literally anyone with an iPhone (myself included) has compromised their keys and thus it doesn’t matter. So it makes no sense to not allow that option for people. If they get burned, they will suddenly learn a lot about keys and security.

If you could “sign in with Apple” to all Nostr related apps and pull the same keys and have your same account in every app… I wouldn’t discount how powerful that would be for the user experience.

nostr:nevent1qqsp92cssnwtnylw4fkthe0h27scxa49s4s8eshkl6su96uhxgn309qpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgflqkfd

Truly was their siren song. End of an era.

A big barrier to #Nostr that I think many will reject outright is the lack of “sign in with Apple” or similar option to use Nostr apps. Which is why I think tools like nostr:nprofile1qqsd79ejwuvz7v246danxqs3hgw7f2q4qrqz6x27je8er0nhfmykwzqpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qyshwumn8ghj7en9v4j8xtnwdaehgu3wvfskuep0w3uhqetnvdexjur59a9hzc are extremely powerful and should be a widely adopted standard.

Dude I don’t think I ever saw that show but it sounds amazing. It’s the sort of thing I’ll find myself doing on YouTube or something every now and again.

LMAO I'm fucking dying 🤣 🤣

Save as much as you can and save in #Bitcoin. It’s that simple.

Where is the post? 😈

Paid for dinner with Lightning btw. I can’t wait for a bitcoin standard.

nostr:nevent1qqsf8klshkj2n5lxl2fzfy0cegzxdfuhrr8rvlq0ncr9affs962p8vqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhg4lyx07

It started happening around year 12 and I’ve tried to see someone over it but the doctors insist that I must have always been orange or that the change is just my imagination. Thank you so much for noticing, I really feel alone and have nobody to speak to about this. 😞🧡

Omg, even my heart emoji looks orange, WHAT IS GOING ON!? 😫

Ain’t no such thing 😆

Nah

Oh ok that’s better, lol. I thought you’d been a long time LTC holder or something and I was feeling bad for you

I would love to see hard data on how many accounts out there are pure rage bots. Just Ai accounts whose sole purpose is to make a bad point and then insult you or make a ridiculous generalization to get engagement and attention. 🤔😆

As society becomes more productive and technologically advanced, money is *supposed* to grow in value.

This is literally the mechanism by which the fruits of all our labor are shared. By all the things we need and want becoming more affordable.

If everything is getting more expensive while technology is advancing, someone is stealing from you.

Hell yeah dude, enjoyed the article. 🫡

Sure, what are the real details about what happened?

That’s the crazy thing about what pubky is building. They keep positioning as competing with Nostr, but I don’t see why that has to be. The actual pubky DNS layer can be used independently and it’s really lightweight from what I understand. A new way to provide additional robustness and censorship resistance at the relay layer would be a huge benefit, imo

How could you combine pubky DNS for relays with Nostr? 🤔

How boss would it be if you could run Nostr by connecting to relays that couldn’t be censored and could always pop right back up and were reachable with the exact same key no matter where they hosted?

That’s what I do, I’ve really enjoyed their service and it gets better at a regular pace. Lots being built

If YouTube is giving you trouble you can post native to nostr:npub1nxy4qpqnld6kmpphjykvx2lqwvxmuxluddwjamm4nc29ds3elyzsm5avr7

I think the trick is to send legal threats 😂

‘MURICA!!

How on earth did you read this that way? 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

If you have a better way to filter bots and spam in a decentralized network, then 40 years of cypherpunks and P2P developers would love to hear it btw. 🫡