Shhhhhh, don’t give the NFT bro’s any ideas
I’m trying to avoid the client to have to retrieve “root” events the user chose to ignore. So if you receive a comment, it would be good if the client can filter it directly.
Maybe it would still make sense to additionally define a 5th parameter to "e" tags for the root event where the replies carry the root kind. So [ "e", "
Pablo won me over with that argument in the format discussion, if every special kind has a sensible fallback "content" it helps usability a lot.
I completely agree with Gigi in that we need to be able to filter those kind of events. But I would like to have the option to see them in my clients if I want to. Only trouble is currently you need to retrieve the root event to know what it’s kind was.
https://github.com/swesterfeld/audiowmark
Problem you can't share the watermarking key or someone can remove the data. That's why they recommend embedding 'random' looking hashes and maintain a database that looks them up. But the readme on that repo is a good read in any case.
I was so exited when they did their Australia presentation. And then nothing happened and they scrapped it.
Hey Sjors. Have you seen the proposals already in pull requests? I am currently trying to see if we can improve/merge the two approaches, your ideas sound similar.
draft NIP-93 "Secret Events" https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/306
draft NIP-31 "Incognito Direct Messages" https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/410
My technical analysis of NIP-95 and file distribution over relays:
First, why do people want to distribute files directly on relays?
Well, the motivation is pretty straightforward: we want to be able to treat files like notes, meaning:
1. We can verify their authenticity
2. We can distribute them to multiple locations, and re-distribute them if the locations change
3. We can link to them without having to link to a particular hosting provider (that may go down or stop serving the file in future)
In all honestly, I agree that relays (or relay-like systems) are a perfect fit for this type of need, and I think it’s inevitable for relays to eventually start offering some form of file hosting service. Not all, but certainly paid relays might.
NIP-95 is one proposed way to get relays to host files. Dead simple: get the file contents and stick it in a Nostr event, and you’ve got files on relays! Certainly, it satisfies all three needs I mentioned earlier, so what’s wrong with it?
Well, it doesn’t appreciate how different files and notes actually are. Consider these particular behaviours that apply to files but not to notes:
1. Streaming
Files on the web are streamed in, meaning that you can see a low-resolution image well before you’ve finished downloading the full file, or you can watch the beginning of a video or beginning of a sound file without downloading it in its entirety.
If files are embedded as base64-encoded strings inside note content, a lot of this streaming behaviour that is taken care of by the browser needs to be handled manually by clients. You’ll need a streaming JSON parser and a streaming base64 parser, and if you’re lucky the note fields stream in in the right order that you can start showing the note as it’s streamed in (which is not guaranteed).
2. Seeking
Continuing along the streaming idea, files are also seekable. You can fetch a part of a file and download just that.
Again, Nostr notes don’t have such functionality at all. You get them in their entirety from beginning to end. What’s more, video files include seeking metadata at the beginning that tell a video player at what byte offset in the file they can find what second of video, enabling seeking to work. Even if you could request a specific range of a note, you’d have to play some tricks to find the right byte offset in the base64-encoded note contents that corresponds to the right byte of the file. Again, here, this is all work that comes for free in a browser, and it now is left to clients if they want to offer a good user experience.
(For those who are curious about the technical side of this, on browsers who support the MediaSource extension, you can pass a video element your own buffers of video data. So in theory clients could stream in note contents, decode them, and pass them to a video player. However, the MediaSource extension is crucially not supported on iOS, who exclusively permit Apple’s HLS streaming format.)
3. Request cancellation
Finally, to make all this magical video and file streaming work browsers frequently open requests, get what they need, and then drop the request before it’s completed. It’s the final essential behaviour that make the streaming user experience good.
How do you cancel an incoming websocket message? You have to close the websocket.
You’d have to close the websocket, re-open it, re-sub to all the things you wanted from the relay and hope to dear god that you haven’t accidentally re-subbed to the file.
To Conclude
It might sound to some like my critique here is missing the point entirely of NIP-95 files: they’re not supposed to cover all use cases for files and are generally just small images.
And that’s where I’m just not so sure. I think if NIP-95 is spec’d to only be for small files that won’t really upset relays, and that won’t really need streaming, then it’s already lost a lot of its appeal to me. Because that means it will only ever be able to solve for a subset of the problem, and the problem of actual file distribution remains open. What makes Nostr great right now is that everyone is shipping and testing lots of new wild ideas, and we all have a willingness to try and see what works, and adapt, and evolve. What’s more, there’s a certain anti-tradition mentality where nobody’s shy of questioning the established ways of doing things and that’s something that makes me really love developing for this ecosystem.
That applies just the same for file distribution. Maybe the way it’s been done traditionally isn’t THE way to do it, and novel solutions should be considered. But we risk taking steps back by not being aware of how these kind of problems have been solved traditionally and why. HTTP file streaming is very very capable, and we should try to craft something that can preserve all the great benefits of the old method while adding decentralisation and trustlessness.
And for that, I think we need to bring NIP-95 back to the workshop and give it another go. I suggest:
- file delivery happens outside of web sockets over regular HTTP (easy for clients)
- relays who host file attachments can signal to clients inside the protocol where they can go to download them
- files are hashed with a j-hash (shameless plug https://github.com/bmewj/j-hash-node), so that their contents can be verified progressively without having to download the entire file (i.e. when streamed or seeked)
Ok! That’s all. Thanks for reading! :)
Tagging a bunch of people I admire to engage (if they want) in the discussion:
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I think we can completely cover all the file needs with file headers (NIP-94) and https://nosdav.com
We are wasting time and resources re-inventing http for no reason.
Here goes my day. What a riveting book
We're just patiently waiting for nostr groups to become more widely available
We have a Telegram group for “Publishing original Music on Nostr” where we have discussed many of the topics you mention.
Feel free to join https://t.me/+MFK-E1B20Ps5MzA0
Yes, it’s a known issue with an open ticket on image-rs. On gossip I think it kills a thread and the image gets added to a bad url list, then it just spawns a new thread.
Another egui bug. Should be fixed in “unstable” branch. First note I’ve ever seen that includes ‘\t’ tab characters.
That is why I wanted to clarify haha. Was wondering if Android was so exposed by default. Good to hear it’s not.
We ran into something similar when implementing images on gossip client. URL‘s to Imgur are case sensitive, we were lowercasing urls which broke Imgur links. #[4] not sure if you guys did something like lowercasing urls recently.
Do you need to already have it set up (agree permissions) or can you use it on a phone where the screen is already broken?
Because whatever App isn't getting banned is already complying?
Yep, had that thought as well (even though I was thinking of deriving BTC keys), BUT before we do any of it we need way better key management than we do now.
Ok sorry, you mentioned Mexico so it seems they are heading to the US.



