I don't have any experience. I'm a student still. I didn't "school" her (as you mentioned in your earlier comment) nor can I.
I didn't get my point across maybe. As doctors we are told to our LDL levels in check. That's only what I wanted to say. Butter has saturated fat which can make your LDL levels go up.
Now, HDL and LDL ratio should (as we studied) should be below 5:1
If you keep eating saturated fats that ratio will change.
Butter does not make your LDLās go up. You are grossly misinformed.
Source: trust me? š¤
I need some more butter for all this popcorn 
?cid=2154d3d7ydtj8fbpbuzy4qyo23uaeiqzkfkk7j8xugx2vu44&rid=giphy.gif
Hahahaha
No, I trust Susie who is an actual doctor with years of experience over you. Is medical school telling you vegetable oils are healthy too? Looks like what you are learning in med school is behind the times of the latest information.
Never once I said I am right and #[6] is wrong.
You keep twisting things and then calling a healthy debate and labelling me "delusional".
I can share peer reviewed articles that say moderate intake of butter is not detrimental to health. I was saying from the start to keep it healthy. Even if you are not a doctor doesn't it make sense to take everything moderately?
You want to compares hours of nutrition study Wolf? We take our anatomy, physiology and biochem with the med students our first 2 years in dental school, so we are on even footing there.
You are dentist?
Yes, but my father is the inventor of the heart scan and his friend Arthur Agatston developed calcium scoring on his machine which the AMA and the ACC rejected as āmedically insignificantā for years and is now the standard of care.
I'm sorry no offense but don't you think those credits don't transfer?
š¤£ It was literally the courses with the med students.
Okay what are we debating here?
Are we debating moderate intake of butter is bad or more than moderate?
I eat butter and or saturated fat with ever meal and my lipid profile is optimal, my calcium score is 0, my blood glucose is healthy and I donāt take a single med in my 50ās. Most physicians I know can not say the same.
šÆšÆšÆ
Iām my opinion the entire cholesterol ābeefā pushed on us for years is wrong and %backed by centralized medicine/Pharma and insuranceā¦..just watching my kids in med. school plus my own research is all Iāve got. Just a Pleb.
sorry Susie had to add the beef. š
š¤£
Exactly. Look who funds them. There is no money in healthy patients.
Great book on this topic is āLies My Doctor Told Meā by Dr. Ken Barry
Itās fantastic.
Spot onā¦..a lot of what my oldest daughter does is not necessarily diagnosing as much as it is entering ācodesā for medsā¦ā¦codes that are set up by insurance and hospital boards.
The older I get coupled with the 100ās of employees I have itās been really interesting to observe whatās happening behind the centralized medicine curtains.
My buddy just last night gave me another lecture about having two eggs, toast, and black coffee every morning for breakfast. Says eating eggs every day is horrible for my cholesterol and I really should go to a doctor since they will tell me the same. Keep in mind this same person swears Smart Balance buttery spread which is loaded up with vegetable oils is much healthier than the Tillamook butter I use. Just comparing the ingredients of both is a shocking contrast. Tillamook literally has one ingredient, butter while Smart Balance is loaded up with all kinds of chemicals yet people think itās healthier? smh.
Itās wild how delusional people are.
Bro no offense but your arguments are he said this and I said that.
I sent you a paper. Please read that. Peace ā
Some people really donāt know the difference between empirical and anecdotal evidenceā¦
True story šø
Sure but anecdotal is compelling. I have hundreds and hundreds of patients in my practice who I have watched get sicker and on more meds over 25 years and it always is the sameā¦
Metformin or statinā¦ā¦..+blood pressure medsā¦+more diabetes meds+ ssri for women. Its alarming and disgusting.
Itās become an epidemic of its own.
Very true. Americans consume 65% of prescription meds worldwide and almost 70% of Americans are on at least one rx. The idea of a physician being a healer nowadays is laughable.
I also eat full fat dairy (butter, whole milk yogurt) &eggs, beef, bacon, pork ..every day
The fattier the better
3 days straight of beef soup from marrow bones
Havenāt touched margarine in 15 years
Recent health exam:
Entire blood panel normal, even optimal- CBC, sugar, liver, kidney function, and yes cholesterol
Weight better than in my 20s (in 50s now)ā¦waistline same
BP = 110/70
Maybe I should check with my doctor thoā¦š§
Moderate intake of butter is alright for healthy people. That was my point from the very beginning.
I am glad you are healthy and I wish you all the health but saying since you didn't get high LDL eating butter with every meal nobody will get it is also not right.
In addition to that, deductive reasoning dictates we look at all the factors contributing to your good health. As a dentist can you say with absolute certainty that the reason to your good HDL to LDL ratio is only eating butter? We can't disregard exercise, the amount of butter you're eating and other various factors.
Which brings me again to my point. Everything eaten moderately doesn't do you harm if you are a healthy individual.
But I wasnāt healthy. I was 80lbs overweight following the AMA nutritional guidelines of avoiding saturated fats, lower meat consumption, and eating āhealthy grainsā. I was diagnosed with diabetes with an A1C of 7.1 at 48. My GP recommended reducing my carbs and handed me a prescription for metformin. Thatās it š”
Here is a pic to prove it and Iāll happily provide my bloodwork from then and now. So yes I have a comparison and can say my LDL/HDL ratio is healthier now eating butter, tallow, eggs and meat every day than it was avoiding them.
This is amazing, Susie! You go girl!!!! š„š„š„š„š„
Absolutely happy for your health.
I'm glad it worked for you.
Doesn't work for everyone. AMA's experiment group is much bigger with more data with years of research behind it.
For quick experiment try giving a hypertensive patient whole eggs, butter and beef for a few days if they don't need intensive care I'll start prescribing saturated fats no questions asked as soon as I get my license.
You have way too much faith in institutions. You believe the organizations you cite have the patients best interest at heart. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Dude your arguments are just "conspiracy this conspiracy that".
Again, Read the paper I sent you. Peace pro maxā
I have 2 friends who were on statins, beta blockers and diuretics who decided to go carnivore after my success. Between the 2 of them they have lost almost 100 lbs and all meds except one statin are gone from both. It works for everyone I have met who sticks to it without exception. I have never met an obese carnivore.
agreed
i eat many eggs and steaks every day
it is the best medicine
which gives you energy for doing sports all day
you stay lean, get all nuitrients and most of all you stay very healthy
do not believe those liars
Good for them
Sounds about right from a future physician
from one healer to another, i think the two of you would do better if you acknowledge some truths will be unknowable (humility) and other *truths* may not be so (skepticism). the best physicians balance this well, strive to be honest with their patients and never shun questions. also, everyone, at some point or another, has benefited (or will benefit) from a physicianās expertise, even if that individual is flawed or the system is corrupt. bashing an entire profession seems shortsighted, disingenuous and petty. i hope one day someone will be able to change your perspective āš¼
I acknowledge that the majority of surgeons improve peopleās lives and have the ability to heal. This is not my experience with physicians at all. The majority I have dealt with and it has been many having 4 children (1 with a congenital heart condition) and a large dental practice in which I am privvy to the health/rxs of my patients do not heal patients. They manage symptoms with an increasing list of medications over the years. I have many close friends who are physicians and most are miserable as their care of patients is dictated by either insurance companies, hospital health systems or corporate group practices.
Im also sick of listening to fat doctors who have little to know knowledge of nutrition who rely on their credentials for superiority all the while their patients are less healthy and on more meds.
Eh. By the time you need a surgeon you needed a lot of other things first. I see most of the medical system as a cash grab.
Preach!
fair enough. just gets old getting bashed from all sides when youāre doing the best you can in a demanding profession with inevitable bad outcomes. iām sure youāre a wonderful dentist (sincerely) and do your best to counsel patients on all aspects of prevention, yet they still come with their bombed mouths for you to fix. it may baffle you that people ignore the most common sense approach, but youāre there to help with the tools available and hopefully without judgement and arrogance to cloud your ability to heal. focusing on the warped incentives (for example, taking moral hazard out of the mix by letting people choose with their own āskin in the gameā) would be more constructive than leading people to think theyāre seeing crooks with every appointment (especially in times of vulnerability and suffering when youāre most prone to emotional decision making). thereās bad doctors and dentists, because there are bad people, but we owe the good ones enough respect to not generalize the whole lot
Of course there are bad dentists, but generally it is a dentist with poor handskills or poor ethics. I really donāt know of a single dentist who doesnāt advise practicing oral hygiene. Why brush when thatās kind of a hassle and we can easily fix any cavity you might get in less than an hour. This is akin to how most physicians treat nutrition with patients in my experience. They believe itās too hard and they can prescribe life long meds so why bother?
Iām going opposite to carnivore in the sense of meat since Iāve noticed from experience of cooking it over the years that something unusual with the texture and consistency is apparent.
I was vegan for almost 3 years and quite healthy except anemia. All my numbers are improved on carnivore though. I get my most my grass fed beef directly from ranchers and love the taste and quality.
It works for a majority. After 30 years as a GP in Sweden I see through the almost total BS that is called academic research(or at least in a totally unacceptable degree, bullshitty). Very corrupt āscienceā.
God have mercy on your patients. Pure dogma!
Oh you mean their achievements? Not saying I get credit. Iām saying I have been surrounded by people focused on preventing heart disease all my life. I have been to more ACC and RSNas than I care to remember.
I know Arthur Agatston and Warren Janowitz. Great guys, huge respect.
Warren Janowitz is your father?
Sounds like a diagnostic for a literal hardening of the heart via calcium. Old diagnostic would probably say something like inverted passion.
Incorrect. Total cholesterol rises but the ratio remains unchanged even in cholesterol hyper responders.
Correct. Especially if you eat grass fed butter. LDL and HDL rise, so the ratio remains the same.
If taken moderately.
Normocholesterolemic people are always advised to take butter moderately.
Brought to you by the physicians who recommended seed oil, grains and moderate meat consumption from their 20hrs of nutrition education. No wonder patients keep getting sicker, fatter and on more meds.
Yep. And itās not new news either. 
