The prenup discussion is actually a great chance for him to prove what a fair and loving husband he would be, by accounting for the potential misbehavior or death of either party, arranging for both sides to maintain some financial independence, and ensuring joint socio-economic status.
Preemptive husbandry is real.
Under what condition would you enter into a business partnership where regardless of the behavior of either party, all capital and property under control of the partnership is divided equally, and the party that has more earning power will yield half their income indefinately after the partnership is dissolved under the pretense the stronger party acquired the earning skills during the relationship?
One where I could get pregnant and my market worth drops into the dumps in the day the partnership is sealed.
Value is subjective. Your perception of "drops into the dumps" isn't realistic given real-world evidence. In most cases, a single mother will find a second man and draw resources from both.
Real-world evidence is that young, childless, never-married women are the most attractive marital prospects, by far.
Men aren't lining up to wife up divorced moms, although they're probably more attractive than never-married moms.
You are comparing smart and high-value men with average and normal men; and the highest value woman with the average woman. The truth is, if a woman isn't batshit crazy, infertile and obese, most men are blind to the implications of being a stepfather and would gladly marry a single mother.
In a fiat world, they usually draw resources from the government, methinks...
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Yup, and that is just "other mens' money".
An advanced society cannot stand to have women and children abandoned and begging. It also can't afford to fill the courts with divorce suits and child support fights.
If he doesn't pay, other people will pay, so he's just socializing his losses while privatizing his gains, if he doesn't adequately account for his own potential failure.
And "adequately" means "in line with his station", otherwise you risk a fued.
If you're a millionaire and you try to just dump her off on the side of the road with €1000 and say, thanks for the kids, but my new secretary is hotter 🤙, that's not gonna fly, cuz other men don't want that precedent set because it could negatively effect their own female friends and relatives.
No man is an island. No contract is created in isolation.
Advanced societies may adopt traditional values, with women thoroughly vetting suitors before committing. No sex before marriage!
Also, could women (and their parents) expect from suitors that they commit a certain amount of money as collateral, in case they renege on the contract? For example, sats in a multisig wallet as discussed here:
Yes, mentioned that in the previous thread.
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Bitcoin is particularly useful for this because of its deflationary nature. If you define relatively low amounts (with the biggest chunks at the beginning and after childbearing, as that is when her economic risk jumps), and she stays married for a long time, she'd still end up relatively wealthy.
Then, if he runs off with the secretary or becomes so abusive that she has to escape, she can cry into her champagne glass.
It also makes leaving him less economically attractive (as she forfeits future payments), without trapping her economically.
Find out the hard way
I literally got knocked up on my honeymoon, so I take that possibility very seriously. 😂
I have seen many of my friends marriages fail and both parties express their pain by trying to lash out through financial retributions.
In a successful life long marriage no formal legal framework will ever be required, however many marriages do fail so a pre-agreed framework on how to deal with that financially could be prudent.
Also many Bitcoiners here are creating generational wealth with some creating world level wealth. To not plan for how this will affect your family in both success and failure is unadvised.
Prenups are rarely affective. In the old world, generational wealth can be addressed by trusts or family offices, which are legally separate entities to the individuals benefitting.
In the new world, "not your keys, not your coins" gives ultimate control over generational wealth.
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One point that many people don't seem to think about is what it says about them if they try to pressure their future spouse into an unfair prenup
I read you and the only thing I think is that I never want to get married again. I should have had one of those.
I believe, wealthy or not, you should think about what to do if a marriage ends.
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I feel the same way as you. I have no plans to get married again. I'm concentrating on the good things from my marriage. Our children are such wonderful people. And I also think that you should set the rules before you get married. I didn't have a prenup and really wish we had. We started this marriage together without much money. Created a lot together. It got very complicated at the end. Precisely because we hadn't settled anything.
I wouldn't want the kids to have to compete with a new spouses for the inherentence. When my husband and I are both deceased, it should be all theirs.
For real.
Also, the person who got the short end of the stick is eventually going to notice and you get to spend the rest of that marriage with them giving you the side-eye.
Which might become very uncomfortable, if the situational tables turn. As they so often do, in a marriage. People get old, sick, bankrupt, imprisoned, disabled, robbed, etc.
We were told in marriage prep that entering into a prenuptial agreement is potential grounds for annulment, because it signals a lack of commitment by leaving an exit agreement.
It may signal that, as I wrote in the other thread, but only so long as it isn't the de facto standard marriage contract (because everyone has one) and/or it contains clauses to make divorce easier or more-likely. If it contains additional divorce penalties and clarifies inheritence rules for property brought into a marriage, for example, it shows no lack of commitment.
Also, it's not grounds for annulment, but can be used as evidence in an annulment (which usually takes place after a civil divorce).
https://catholicreview.org/question-corner-does-a-prenuptial-agreement-invalidate-a-marriage/
Just read that some diocese require you to send them a copy of a prenup for evaluation, before the wedding, to make sure it would not be evidence of invalidity.
I was wrong about divorce penalties. It cannot mention divorce, at all, as that would be assuming a future condition and go against CIC 1102.
What you bring up is what I referred to here. If a prenup is obviously designed as an exit strategy and they exit, then it is an open and shut case, in front of the annulment tribunal.
