Prospective grooms should be paternal enough to be concerned with their brides having a formal structure to protect her well-being.
Discussion
Formal structure ?
Anything more than his promise that they are totally married and insistence that she should just lie back and relax.
That sort of thing sounds great to anarchists, and it is a real marriage, but I think it's predatory behavior outside of being trapped together on a desert island or something.
I don't think you have a correct view of what most anarchists actually want...
But sure. It does sound good. 😝
Most anarchists are just dreaming of a Mad Max scenario (where the woman they're thirsting for is finally desperate enough to put out for him, while requesting nothing in return) or they're promoting stuff that sounds like a proto-state.
No?
Most anarchists I know just wasn't to live in the country with chickens and goats and not have to pay taxes.
That's being a hermit, not an anarchist. 😂
People do that, now. We call them "Einsiedler" (alone settlers).
That's a part of it, but, over here with the people I know, that's everyone from the Amish to me. I don't want madmax because that sucks, and small, local, voluntary communities are much stable, versatile, and defendable.
Anarchy is a wide umbrella, but the 80s punk-anarchists thing died out a long time ago, IMO.
Maybe, but I've been having this discussion with Real Anarchists™ for decades and it always ends up with
1) them describing something like the cow village I live in, but with no federal income taxes and everyone owning a couple of rifles *yawn*
2) them melting down into a rant about how there will be fire and they can just grab me by the hair and run off because there will be CHAOS!!!and it's like, Yo, chill, bro, not gonna happen.
1. That's certainly yawn-worthy, but, that's the kind of peaceful life I desire.
2. Will almost certainly happen locally, but it's not sustainable, so... It will die out eventually.
🤷♂️
They're actually visions that don't work together in the same place. Or, at least, like you say, only for a short time.
If there is chaos, you can grab someone else's woman (children, car, etc.) and run off, that's true. And there's no police to call for help or state to run to, that's true.
But if he has a rifle, then he can just shoot you. And there's no state to try him for murder, so... sucks to be you, shouldn't have messed with his stuff. 😂
Don't try that at home, folks. 🤙
For every guy mentally masturbating at finally getting to take down That Uppity Bitch, there are 20 other guys looking forward to finally getting the chance to lynch guys like him.
Hello militia.
Yes.
Which is why I have weapons and ammo and am training to be even more effective with them. It will be very costly to attempt to take what is mine.
Fully approved !
i have never expected anyone to actually do it right so i have more or less psyched myself up for the mountain forest hermit guy later years, my tolerance for stupidity and obedience is probably too high and idk what to say about that other than - this is just a test, and i never fail tests
I'm already living that mountain, forest hermit kind of life and it's pretty sweet, if a bit dull.
Totally learned to appreciate it during the lockdowns and the immigration flood.
for me it's about the way that i'm very vulnerable to temptation, drugs especially are a big problem for me and out in the country that's all a bit easier to deal with... i'm even now finally cutting back on alcohol and already starting to feel physically and mentally better
i could not do this with the drinks shop 10 minutes walk away... it was only due to developing prediabetic symptoms from energy drinks that i finally stopped that one as well, i can see myself becoming fully abstinent from all but a glass of wine a day in the future, it just takes time and a bit of rest, and i really am, during this little holiday i'm having, starting to realise i need to segregate my days and not feel like i'm always behind on my work
Yes, flee temptation. Really, the simplest method.
Habits are always easier to break in a new situation. This is also why cults look for young and newcomers, to cage you with new habits.
How about when the temptation lurks like a fridge
I remind you then that man is made to be a master of his own self than a slave to his urges.
Now it may seem easy to just say that. But it is an essential thing that you must believe if you’re to get anywhere in life. You must believe that you’re made for bigger and better things.
You’re both the sculptor and the marble. Act accordingly.
not sure how to put this exactly
"man" is an abstract and "me" is a concrete biological process
there can be all kinds of impediments at a purely physical level that prevent proper function of almost everything much past basic ongoing respiration
i had an intuition for decades that i had a gluten allergy
but only the other day i confirmed that a rash that i have been getting since my mid 20s is... a symptom of celiac disease
how does a person live so long without figuring this out?
yeah, that's me!
i've figured out many other things but this one eluded me for over 24 years
so, i'll just counter and say "it is easy to say
yikes, that can be a difficult one. It could be easier if you like cooking for yourself
You’re more than just a biological process. And having concrete difficulties standing in the way further supports what I’m saying. Because confronting and overcoming these difficulties starts by believing you’re made for better things than whatever your current state is.
And I recognize these difficulties are well… difficult and I don’t mean to undermine that. My purpose is to uplift the individual confronting them and remind him of his heritage. Because I sincerely believe we’re all made for better things.
yeah, gotta pick up the ol noggin and soldier on... the mood comes after the work not the other way around
They only want that because most people cooperate with tyrants and marginalise them, why would you want to be neighbors with the Enemy and his protectors
The church used to provide that structure, combined with private contracts (prenup, insurance, property titles, last wills, etc.) that you could use as evidence in ecclesiastical courts.
Then the state took it over and came up with a sort of "package deal" called "marriage and family law", but it's kind of a mess, so people are leaning more toward private contracts again.
"Trust me, girl, I pinky swear", is a private contract, but like 🥴
So in other words, you’re talking the institution of marriage. And how the state screwed things over when it took over this institution.
💯
I'm saying that
1) He should be proactively making sure she gets a fair deal, otherwise he is signaling his own poor quality as head of house.
2) Private contracts, with no means enforcement, are not a fair deal, because women have no means of enforcement, by their very Nature.
There needs to be something in writing (with witnesses), and some place she can take it to plead her case and have men enforce the clauses. Whether that be a private mediator, a public court, a council of elders or ecclesiastical court, etc.
The prenup discussion is actually a great chance for him to prove what a fair and loving husband he would be, by accounting for the potential misbehavior or death of either party, arranging for both sides to maintain some financial independence, and ensuring joint socio-economic status.
Preemptive husbandry is real.
Under what condition would you enter into a business partnership where regardless of the behavior of either party, all capital and property under control of the partnership is divided equally, and the party that has more earning power will yield half their income indefinately after the partnership is dissolved under the pretense the stronger party acquired the earning skills during the relationship?
One where I could get pregnant and my market worth drops into the dumps in the day the partnership is sealed.
Value is subjective. Your perception of "drops into the dumps" isn't realistic given real-world evidence. In most cases, a single mother will find a second man and draw resources from both.
Real-world evidence is that young, childless, never-married women are the most attractive marital prospects, by far.
Men aren't lining up to wife up divorced moms, although they're probably more attractive than never-married moms.
You are comparing smart and high-value men with average and normal men; and the highest value woman with the average woman. The truth is, if a woman isn't batshit crazy, infertile and obese, most men are blind to the implications of being a stepfather and would gladly marry a single mother.
In a fiat world, they usually draw resources from the government, methinks...
💯
Yup, and that is just "other mens' money".
An advanced society cannot stand to have women and children abandoned and begging. It also can't afford to fill the courts with divorce suits and child support fights.
If he doesn't pay, other people will pay, so he's just socializing his losses while privatizing his gains, if he doesn't adequately account for his own potential failure.
And "adequately" means "in line with his station", otherwise you risk a fued.
If you're a millionaire and you try to just dump her off on the side of the road with €1000 and say, thanks for the kids, but my new secretary is hotter 🤙, that's not gonna fly, cuz other men don't want that precedent set because it could negatively effect their own female friends and relatives.
No man is an island. No contract is created in isolation.
Advanced societies may adopt traditional values, with women thoroughly vetting suitors before committing. No sex before marriage!
Also, could women (and their parents) expect from suitors that they commit a certain amount of money as collateral, in case they renege on the contract? For example, sats in a multisig wallet as discussed here:
Yes, mentioned that in the previous thread.
nostr:note1fwvz2rpjpmfrw2y6klkfp6apt9ap4hc77xczejedm0k8x2mz4suq4pdfd5
Bitcoin is particularly useful for this because of its deflationary nature. If you define relatively low amounts (with the biggest chunks at the beginning and after childbearing, as that is when her economic risk jumps), and she stays married for a long time, she'd still end up relatively wealthy.
Then, if he runs off with the secretary or becomes so abusive that she has to escape, she can cry into her champagne glass.
It also makes leaving him less economically attractive (as she forfeits future payments), without trapping her economically.
Find out the hard way
I literally got knocked up on my honeymoon, so I take that possibility very seriously. 😂
One point that many people don't seem to think about is what it says about them if they try to pressure their future spouse into an unfair prenup
I read you and the only thing I think is that I never want to get married again. I should have had one of those.
I believe, wealthy or not, you should think about what to do if a marriage ends.
💯
I feel the same way as you. I have no plans to get married again. I'm concentrating on the good things from my marriage. Our children are such wonderful people. And I also think that you should set the rules before you get married. I didn't have a prenup and really wish we had. We started this marriage together without much money. Created a lot together. It got very complicated at the end. Precisely because we hadn't settled anything.
I wouldn't want the kids to have to compete with a new spouses for the inherentence. When my husband and I are both deceased, it should be all theirs.
For real.
Also, the person who got the short end of the stick is eventually going to notice and you get to spend the rest of that marriage with them giving you the side-eye.
Which might become very uncomfortable, if the situational tables turn. As they so often do, in a marriage. People get old, sick, bankrupt, imprisoned, disabled, robbed, etc.
We were told in marriage prep that entering into a prenuptial agreement is potential grounds for annulment, because it signals a lack of commitment by leaving an exit agreement.
It may signal that, as I wrote in the other thread, but only so long as it isn't the de facto standard marriage contract (because everyone has one) and/or it contains clauses to make divorce easier or more-likely. If it contains additional divorce penalties and clarifies inheritence rules for property brought into a marriage, for example, it shows no lack of commitment.
Also, it's not grounds for annulment, but can be used as evidence in an annulment (which usually takes place after a civil divorce).
https://catholicreview.org/question-corner-does-a-prenuptial-agreement-invalidate-a-marriage/
Just read that some diocese require you to send them a copy of a prenup for evaluation, before the wedding, to make sure it would not be evidence of invalidity.
I was wrong about divorce penalties. It cannot mention divorce, at all, as that would be assuming a future condition and go against CIC 1102.
What you bring up is what I referred to here. If a prenup is obviously designed as an exit strategy and they exit, then it is an open and shut case, in front of the annulment tribunal.