Sad to hear intelligent people talk about UBI as if it will solve any problems.
Discussion
What are their points and evidence and what are your counterpoints and evidence?
Will artificially inflate wages
If bob down the street gets for example 20k for doing NOTHING
Then I as a person making 40k would demand 60k as 20k is the baseline.
It will screw everything up if we implement it in the wrong way without any foresight
That and prices will adjust to account for the base UBI anyway… and how do we pay for it? Plus dependence.
Not to mention fraud that will pop up
There is an argument that in theory hyper productivity due to AI wages COULD be meaningless and the cost to make something would essentially be 0
I am very curious to see research about it just because there isn't much evidence either way and both sides get really uppity when asked about that.
Logically it doesn’t make much sense to me but I do want to see hard data too.
Andrew Yang made the case for UBI in hia book, The War On Normal People.
He claimed we could give each American $1,000 while cutting expenses. To be honest, I thought he made compelling arguments.
Then the lockdowns happened. Trump talked to Yang. Tried UBI, signed is name on the "stimmy checks."
That's when I realized the error in Yang's plan. The government is not capable of UBI without pushing the money printer button.
So you decided to change your morals instead of the government? Weird
I’d rather work for piss for wages than be given money to do nothing
Unless you consider money having actual value a problem
It will only make the problems they’re trying to solve worse… typical socialism
Would be an amalgamation of technocratic hyper capitalism /fascism / socialism
A new governmental system would emerge due to AI
Would be the only way have it implemented.
It will accelerate hyperbitcoinization
Sad to see working class apologists for the rich. Yea we can’t have UBI but we can give billionaires ever increasing tax cuts.
Amazon has a million employees. What mark have you left on this world?
People who complain about billionaires not paying taxes dont understand anything.
Do you think that Elon musk has 250,000,000,000 in his checking account?
What do you think would happen if you made Jeff bezos pay 50% in taxes?
You think he'd write a check? Do you know what would happen to one of the worlds biggest employers if that happened?
You should be complaining about the federal reserve, fake money and term limits. Not billionaires.
Complaining about not having enough monopoly money is fucking insane.
UBI by itself doesn't solve any problem. The idea is that you have access to some minimum necessities, where the UBI facilitates.
Right now people have crippling debt, cannot recover from any serious unanticipated setback, and we wonder why morality and compassion have left the world.
Why advocate for ubi versus a debt forgiveness program (since you mentioned debt)? Or do you support a range of these policies? And what boundaries would be established to account for personal responsibility in debt accumulation?
Finland tried to study this a few years ago and if I recall correctly it was cancelled not even a year in because of how unpopular it was. Then it's a true waste because they didn't even get useful data, I was disappointed.
I’m not too clued up on current thinking on UBI but I do remember reading about some trials demonstrating that it lifted some out of homelessness and into part time work (and then later full time work). It was just enough to cover basic rented shelter and the securing of an address enabling them to take on part time work (the same part-time work alone was not enough for shelter and food and was often impossible to secure without an address). Employers also benefited as more people were willing to take on those part-time roles. UBI is not meant to fund a lifestyle but to give a leg up. (Everyone gets it too, rich and poor but you opt out if not needed). Funding it is the issue - the trials were conducted in smaller nations too. (Finland/Norway if I recall).
Universal Basic Income incentivizes people to sit on their asses.
"If a man does not work, neither shall he eat."
Psyop is gaining traction
Yes, stupid people are often sad to hear intelligent people talk
UBI solves a lot of problems if you're the government.
You've basically turned most people into slaves that depend on you and will go to battle for you.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that mouse-click money for everybody (who complies) doesn't end well.
Do you have a solution ?
Yeah, free markets. There is literally no way to be more prosperous than having proper economic incentives and true property rights without “special conditions” that a political class will gleefully use to control anything and everything they get their hands on
I agree. I’m for 100% free markets.
The wealth distribution is already distorted.
Before we go to free markets, we need some kind of assistance for the bottom half to pick up a little.
It's the ultimate virtue signal. Most western nations already have UBI in the form of unemployment benefits. But "UBI" gives the bleeding hearts something to fight for..
I’ll bite: I think UBI will ultimately be more and more necessary the more advanced and deflationary our technology becomes. Especially when most of that technological potential is captured by an increasingly smaller set of humans. Change my mind!
This completely misconstrued the fundamental premise of technology: did the invention of tractors mean everyone starves without UBI because 80% of field workers lost their jobs?
The answer to your question is the same as the story of what happened to the economy and food availability after tractors were invented.
If someone is talking about UBI, they're not intelligent.
Intelligent ppl understand pow
Name names. Who is intelligent?
The UBI issue is that giving people to sit on their asses and get money to exist isn't good for society in the long run even if you assume the system is perfectly run and not abused by any party. Given that humans will abuse any system and oppression is the usual result of abuse, society should think long and hard before exploring this space - but governments and the powerful don't like having an open and honest conversation with their people, ruling is easier when they can't talk back...
Given also that any UBI would have to be tied to an individual's identity, we can see why so many governments around the world are now pushing for a Digital Identity for their people whilst also pushing for Central Bank Digital Currencies which will be tied in with them. When all money is tied to your identity and tracked throughout the economy, the results are potentially dystopian even if you don't include a Social Credit Score or Carbon Allowance....