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fiatjaf 1mo ago 💬 71

New https://github.com/fiatjaf/nak release (v0.17.0) has:

- `nak git` commands that allow cloning, setting up a new nip34/grasp repository, pushing, fetching and pulling (just call "nak git push", for example, instead of "git push")

- `nak req --only-missing` flag that takes a jsonl file with events and does negentropy with a target relay to only download the events that are not in that file (finally nostr:npub1v0lxxxxutpvrelsksy8cdhgfux9l6a42hsj2qzquu2zk7vc9qnkszrqj49 -- this was ready 2 weeks ago, but I had to make a ton of git stuff before I was able to publish it)

- `nak serve --negentropy --blossom --grasp` new flags that make hosting these things of servers locally much easier for debugging

- you can finally use npubs/nprofiles/nevents/naddrs directly as arguments to `nak event`, `nak req` and others (they will be parsed and included in the event or filter as proper hex)

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BITKARROT 1mo ago

Thank you nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 , appreciate the nak update ✌️

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Иван 1mo ago

Nice

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vinney...axkl 1mo ago

what timing. on the day that i finally really appreciated the thing! thanks!

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vinney...axkl 1mo ago

the last bullet point is so good. i will say though that being forced to encode and decode was a good learning experience.

at least we get to say "back in my day" to the kids now

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fiatjaf 1mo ago

I was conflicted about adding it, but finally made my mind. I had enough of my own decoding learning experiences too.

Oh, it also support nip05 addresses.

Please report bugs (just replying in this thread is ok).

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Carillon 1mo ago

Thank you.

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Schlaus Kwab 1mo ago

Nice. I was waiting for easy local debug blossom.

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Kieran 1mo ago

```

kieran@kieran-x /m/k/c/nostr [1]> go install github.com/fiatjaf/nak@v0.17.0

go: github.com/fiatjaf/nak@v0.17.0 requires go >= 1.24.1; switching to go1.24.10

# fiatjaf.com/nostr/nip77

/home/kieran/go/pkg/mod/fiatjaf.com/nostr@v0.0.0-20251124002842-de54dd1fa4b8/nip77/nip77.go:113:6: wg.Go undefined (type "sync".WaitGroup has no field or method Go)

/home/kieran/go/pkg/mod/fiatjaf.com/nostr@v0.0.0-20251124002842-de54dd1fa4b8/nip77/nip77.go:122:6: wg.Go undefined (type "sync".WaitGroup has no field or method Go)

```

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fiatjaf 1mo ago

Golang is stupid, it compiles on my machine. Maybe it is using go1.25 to compile for me and not giving me this error.

Anyway, published v0.17.1 now that forces that version.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

wat is GRASP?

i have started a negentropy peer implementation on orly now too, and it has a serve function that uses tmpfs, and blossom is default on, and respects whatever ACL system you enable. there is an aggregator tool that lets you trawl the nostrwebs for your events and writes them to jsonl. it has a GUI, which is still a bit of a WIP but already lets you log in, view and delete your own events. there is a zap-to-subscribe system for paid use case but it's untested as yet, same as blossom, though it's tested to the gills.

but wat is grasp?

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fiatjaf 1mo ago

Grasp is Blossom for git repositories.

You can host your repositories in multiple servers and their state is attested by Nostr events you publish that tells people where to fetch from and what is the latest head and branches, so the servers don't have to be trusted and it's easy to switch servers while keeping your repository identifiers immutable (they're essentially your pubkey + an arbitrary identifier).

Grasp servers can be self-hosted, paid, or ran for free by some community benefactor, and you can mix and use all these at the same time.

The existence of grasp servers also makes it easy for people to clone repositories, create branches and make them available to be merged by others, all without leaving the terminal (but of course there can also be all kinds of clients), which is the GitHub "pull request" UX people are familiar with.

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Kieran 1mo ago

Where is the spec for this?

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gittr.space 1mo ago

https://gittr.space/npub1n2ph08n4pqz4d3jk6n2p35p2f4ldhc5g5tu7dhftfpueajf4rpxqfjhzmc/gittr?file=docs here's with the blossom addition

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

nostr:npub1n2ph08n4pqz4d3jk6n2p35p2f4ldhc5g5tu7dhftfpueajf4rpxqfjhzmc are you worried that supporting so may ways of doing the same thing, adds unnecessary complexity, makes it harder to understand and harder to implement?

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gittr.space 1mo ago

Not anylonger but it was certainly a fight. Made a PR on the optional changes back to gitnostr and a repo on snippets with which stuff got better to handle. And serious doku, not the unuseful kind but actually helpful 🐈‍⬛

If everyone contributes back and new ones still know where to start we' re good 🤗

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

I'm a bit confused. Are you are saying the extra complexity of having lots of different ways of doing the same thing is OK? And that you made a PR to a project that has only 1 commit posted 2 years ago.

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arbadacarba 1mo ago

Yes, thats what i am saying. Its about discoverability for me.

See nothing wrong in PRing changes so its up to date. Lost and left repos are a problem when ppl want to contribute.

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arbadacarba 1mo ago

The result is very reliable & fast so i dont really get the problem here neither with complexity and sharing snippets on that nor PRing progress. Ive contributed to much older code than 2 years before..

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arbadacarba 1mo ago

Id like to know what's too complex in this. You can just fork it and build upon or just face the complexity.

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fiatjaf 1mo ago

https://gitworkshop.dev/danconwaydev.com/grasp/tree/master/01.md

But I think it's still a work-in-progress. If you have some good ideas about how to best handle the pull request flow or other things let nostr:npub15qydau2hjma6ngxkl2cyar74wzyjshvl65za5k5rl69264ar2exs5cyejr know.

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ben 1mo ago

I dug into this a while back and hacked together a poc implementation. I wanted to store ojbects in blossom so I extended nip-34 to include content addressable objects.

you probably shouldn't do this but there's no bad ideas, right?

**Standard NIP-34 repository state (kind 30618):**

```json

["refs/heads/main", "c8c4e344a9c0b4008bb72eebb188be7d7b83dcb1"]

```

**extension for content-addressed storage:**

```json

["ref", "heads/main", "c8c4e344a9c0b4008bb72eebb188be7d7b83dcb1", "9adca865e86f755634dc0e594b74ba7d6ff5a66e4070c278e29ecda1bf7f4150"]

["obj", "589d02c42ef724523ceba0697315e36520332993", "abc123def456789012345678901234567890abcdef123456789012345678901234"]

["obj", "e63987bfc58e1197df38e5edb1d9930eb08d8589", "def456abc789012345678901234567890123abcdef456789012345678901234567"]

```

**Extensions:**

- **4th parameter in `ref` tags**: Maps Git commit SHA to content-addressed storage hash (Blossom SHA-256)

- **`obj` tags**: Map Git object SHAs (trees, blobs) to their content-addressed storage hashes

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

Interesting. You'd end up with a lot of objects with that approach and eventually it would be too big for the event size. I thought about doing it with storing packs in blossom. Here is my code to play with that idea. https://gitworkshop.dev/danconwaydev.com/ngit/prs/note1s2au56ejtkfc5tqaduu2a6zp83xm80j2wmkjxx603y645jfrlq3qmp88s4 I would have made it into a POC if rust-nostr had blossom support at the time. It does now. It turns out that having a git server is way more flexible so ngit.dev/grasp came to be. Let git be git and let nostr be nostr.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

you could use Go and i already have a second draft blossom server written in go. i didn't write it. claude spun it up in about 3 hours and then another hour fixing it and i just haven't tested it yet. i know it works because it's just http and the tests pass, and i saw it accepting, and allowing me to delete a random blob several times. i just haven't used it. probably https://relay.orly.dev/ will already serve you with blossom. imma make sure you both have permissions in case you want to try it

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

my take on this is look into techniques used in computer games. i remember when GTA3 came out, and its most epic achievement was loading free inter-map transit. still very few games use this but it's a graph theory algorithm.

this is the kind of thing you need to automatically, and quickly partition a map of related data. you need metrics of proximity and some kind of parameters for partitioning the map to fit the compute you need to do.

it's not hard. but it may take a while to wrap your head around it. but graphs at high node count are N! style compute cost. so it only takes like 3 or 4 deep and you are practically at infinity as far as even the most powerful computers can do in milliseconds.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

The problem is git enables many feature like shallow and parse cloning, packing specific object and data, getting specific files and git logs, etc. These are all battle tested on solid git server implementations. This is all not possible trying to reinvent a simplified git server with blossom.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

i'm definitely with you on that. i personally would even suggest to not even write one single bit of code that handles git. palm it off to Linus' excellent implementation and then see what it misses.

i always envisioned that nostr was just negotiation rendezvous easy inbound connection. i've already tried to work with an attempt to clone the core features of git, in pure Go, and it was endlessly problematic with even minimal lag between their work and what the git project has already progressed to.

git is just a unix shell protocol, based on stdio and unix filesystem. don't over think it. the protocol only needs to provide the correct references and paths.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

The reference implementation does exactly that. It uses nginx to pass request to the git-http-backend CGI scripts maintained by the git project.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

It turns out that the http wrapper (CGI scripts) is not that complicated. There are nearly 3 grasp implementations that do this bit internally. This enables shipping a single binary and handling the authorisation *before* the data is sent.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

i dream of a day, where other people understand that most things are just pipes and shells and access control. if you ever read me on a regular basis you kknow the last point is my biggest gripe with most devs, and i already have experienced first hand how hard it is to explain the first two to most devs.

networks are just pipes with extra steps.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

also, it's just combinatorial stuff. you can't efficiently deal with multidimensional graphs, you want to stick with stuff that can be flattened into a 2d representation. branches and layers are basically exponentially more complex.

git is built on the directed acyclic graph geometry. there is a lot of shortcuts because you don't have to escape loops.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

I'm sure the midcurve meme apply here with 'just let git handle that'.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

you mean, the retard and the jedi saying that, of course.

yeah, don't reinvent the wheel if you don't have to. servers that translate between protocol and git is quite trivial to implement. this is not realtime, low latency requirements here. even as much as 5 seconds to lay down a commit and propagate it is fine.

never prematurely optimize, and don't roll your own if you can just assemble someone else's stuff into a shape that meshes with your actual part of it.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

speaking from experience. even since picking up LLMs to help me with this, there are many things that just are not practical to do of such scale in any sane amount of time.

it was a harsh burn discovering that i couldn't do git stuff in pure go. the go version just isn't nearly adequate. it seemed to be working, and then i got all this mess going on. what was the error? i forget, it was some protocol network shit iirc. annoying af.

thats' why https://git.mleku.dev/mleku is just a plain gitea. i wanted to just host only my repos, and not have that stutter in the URL.

i spent probably weeks trying to get that working, and in the end, it was futile. linus seems to be turning into a javascript ninja with all his fucking breaking changes this last few years. fuck that guy.

just use his binary and interface to the git repo using it.

the bitch has got too complicated to build from scratch. oh, sure, we could do all kinds of things involving metadata on nostr and all that shit but you really should just pause, before you race off and do that, and go clone the git repo, and tell an LLM to explain it to you. 30 screenfuls of documentation later, you will be in agreement with me.

nah, just call git via your preferred language method for executing child processes. the end.

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ben 1mo ago

yeah youd bloat the event with every object ref as the repo grows. not a great design but a fun poc.

i wrote my poc in go. the code is actually hosted on itself, as the poc is a relay/blossom/webui all in one binary server. i also wrote my own git-nostr-remote for the client side. it was a fun hack and generally works for the happy path. no planning to pursue it. i can share the code if you’re interested in it.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

Nice! Would love to see it.

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arbadacarba 1mo ago

Issues and PRs (kinds 9803/9804) are automatically published to nostr on handled status changes (merged, closed and reopened).

I fetch them from source if possible on import of the repo and try to aggregate those by their timestamps with the nostr kinds.

If source is lets say Github im not upstreaming the edits additionally there so far.

Anyway still needs polish in finding these kinds better and flows are surely not the endgame, but what i went with so far 🤓

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Five 1mo ago

Full Grasp support coming to BudaBit soon, the primitives are already implemented.

1. What we struggled with is the creation flow where we first post the repo announcement then the newly created git repo, but that must be done with an arbitrary sleep(X ms) wait time so that's not really ideal.

You guys have ideas to improve this flow?

2. I think it this was discussed before but want to get a fresh opinion of yall: Unified grasp api for file browsing and perhaps diffs and really data-heavy ops? Cloning repos via git smart http can still be a fallback but this would benefit performance a lot. Blossom has an api as well so I guess this would make sense, especially in a browser context.

nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 nostr:npub15qydau2hjma6ngxkl2cyar74wzyjshvl65za5k5rl69264ar2exs5cyejr

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

For 1, the 5s timeout used in ngit was more of a placeholder for a better approach. I think its best to pole the repo endpoint every 200ms until it reponds as if the repo as been created.

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Five 1mo ago

Good idea thanks!

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

consider the option of using REQ and subscriptions. they are so fast if clients randomly put my relay wss://relay.orly.dev/ later than other relays, it has already received it via subscription using the follows spider. i will follow up this note with a screenie of it happening, if it happens

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

nope, it didn't do it, lets see if it works this time

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

humbug, imwald is sending it to my relay first.

anyway, it happens now and then, i see in the upload popup on the bottom right, that if my relay doesn't get sent the event first, it returns that it already has it.

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DanConwayDev 1mo ago

2. In the browser context we cannot rely on iso-morphic git as it doesn't support sparse clones and the UX of a shallow clone (with blobs) isn't good enough for large repos. eg. try browsing https://gitworkshop.dev/vitorpamplona.com/amethyst for the first time.

I think we should explore directly requesting a pack from the http endpoint containing the blobs we need (for a specific file) instead of relying on iso-morphic git. We could create a javascript library that does just this.

If this doesn't work then we should add an API endpoint for files / listing directories, etc. My concern about the API is 1) it enables the use of a grasp server as a CDN for files in a repository 2) where would we stop in terms of the API, there isn't a clear boundary and we could end of creating all git commands / options as an API which makes it a more complex protocol and harder to implement.

Someone nearly attempted to add sparse clone in iso-moprhic git but there are a baked in assumptions in may parts of the codebase that blobs are present so it would require a larger change and it might be hard to get merged as a first time contirbutor.

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AU9913 0mo ago

FYI, this breaks when branches are named PR/*

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fiatjaf 3w ago

What happens? Can you send a screenshot?

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AU9913 3w ago

I'm AFC today but it's like 'branches with PR/* are supposed to go through the nostr network not got servers" I am working on a PR to fix it for you. I pushed the initial way I was doing it, but it's not 100% there. Let me know if the way im doing that using a separate nak git PR type command is not how you want to solve it.

While I have your attention, would you like to have a nak kanban command set to work with nip 100 stuff (and via MCP)? I am doing it all with nak already via bash but I figured it would be cool for me to build it into the MCP there so you could have a Project manager agent able to create, assign and managed work (likely to other ai agents).