FUD'ing Signal is arguably one of the worst things you can do because it drives people to shittier alternatives, not to better ones.
Signal's stated goal is to prevent mass surveillance. It doesn't claim it can protect targeted individuals.
Discussion
It's a tool like any other to collect meta data and build a graph.
And in those cases where people do not control their own OS both mobile and PC interception is possible before and after E2E encryption.
I do think it's the right choice for those Bitcoiners not caring about their anonymity and privacy anyways.
Glad Monero brothers and sisters already moved on to SimpleX.
And please! If you insist on using the Signal network, at least do it via "Molly" client.
Molly is awesome
I love Simplex but it's really hard to onboard noobs and group chats suck
Meatspace is best.
Is Tucker Carlson even aware that his whole phone was compromised (by Pegasus) and by extension Signal, instead of just the Signal app itself?
Gathering metadata about all conversations with phone numbers attached is almost the definition of mass surveillance.
Arguably it protects targeted individuals better as the message contents are actually encrypted.
Actually we can't really be sure that message contents are really encrypted since it's not possible to verify if the app people are installing is built from the same source code that is made public unless I'm missing something.
that's not a problem unique to Signal
If we accept that the apps we are installing are really what they're supposed to be,
then signal provides good protections.
better than most
Just wait until you discover that Signal's algorithm was written by experts at the NSA headquarters in Hawaii without irony.
They have a nice museum there that celebrates their own inventions and how many decades passed until others figured out the backdoors inside each of the items.
Are there reproducible builds for Signal? Can do for Threema, at least on Android: https://threema.ch/en/open-source/reproducible-builds
the major critique for signal is the "walled garden" experience, the encryption is safe
Checkout cwtch… https://docs.cwtch.im/security/intro
How about switching to https://keet.io ?
I've tried it.
Will still prefer anything built on top of NOSTR. Encryption here is bulletproof on apps like 0xChat with the bonus you can choose from hundreds of servers to keep messages.
What’s going on with Signal?
Sponsored by CIA, they'd provide tens of millions of USD each year to keep it running.
Encryption algorithm built by the NSA in Hawaii, later adopted by Zuckerberg at WhatsApp to track billions of people.
The story is well-known and published since years. That is the reason why even telegram is seen as more private than signal.
Don't ask me to defend either of those options, my opinion is that NOSTR is what we should all be using for private communications.
Thanks for explaining
Is it well-known? From all I can see the algorithm was invented by Moxie Marlinspike and Trevor Perrin with no public relationship with the NSA. I see reason to be skeptic of that story, but I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever of the contrary.
Look a bit deeper and you'll find Moxie sponsoring a surf holiday in Hawaii for cryptography experts to talk about the algorithm.
By coincidence he used CIA money for that trip and by coincidence are the headquarters of the NSA located there. A place that also by coincidence hosts a museum where they proudly display broken cryptography that took decades until adversaries knew about it.
A quite peculiar decision with quite a peculiar group of experts for an algorithm that almost immediately got adopted by facebook/whatsapp for their billion audience.
Even more peculiar is to observe that whatsapp rarely gets attacked by federal agencies for its "private" communications whereas Telegram is always the bad guy. Makes you wonder why Zuckerberg isn't afraid of landing in France and being arrested.
This is juicy stuff. Can you share more information?
Even with this “juicy gossip” factored in, why the fuck would the conclusion to that be to push Telegram, of all solutions? Truly backdoored garbage, full of spam and bots. Ultimately, Signal is the best mainstream option until and as when SimpleX or Nostr DMs with stronger privacy guarantees are ready to scale with products that appeal.
It isn't a conclusion, it is a comparison.
Signal is not the best mainstream option, because it was never really adopted by mainstream despite being promoted by western governments and left-wing groups, lest not forget it appears plenty even on holywood movies.
Still, Telegram has defacto been the best mainstream option without any of that. It is the non-acceptable option by western governments and yet used so often by the "mainstream" that they had to arrest the founder.
SimpleX is similar garbage to both signal and telegram. There is ZERO benefit in repeating the same mistakes of the past. SimpleX is a small russian company, that now received western funding. There is only ONE client implementation and ONE server provided by default by the same company for "free". In other words, they can easily disable any encryption for the "special" people as done for other options. You can't really verify and your messages aren't decrypted at their servers because you can't even guarantee they haven't stolen your private keys (tip, they are stored locally).
NOSTR is the future.
Hundreds of relays across the globe run by volunteers, dozen and dozens of client implementations and verifiable battle-proven cryptography that govs have a bad day trying to decrypt.
That is the reason why I'm here.
Agree re: Nostr but I feel the rest is just noise (I gave simplex as an example but feel it goes nowhere). WhatsApp uses Signal encryption. You may feel it is shit, and it might be, but to say it isn’t mainstream is incorrect.
If you read again, we were comparing signal to telegram.
Between those two, Telegram is ranked #3 in the west so it is a defacto mainstream. Whatsapp too, but that isn't really the same as signal.
Just call me when the US arrests Zuckerberg to complain about the privacy on his WhatsApp messengers.
I still find these arguments pointless. WhatsApp/Signal clear #1 by a wide margin, and represent a great level of encryption *for the average person*.
If you want to keep a secret, why do it online? Nerds just tie themselves up in knots over who has the biggest share of zero.
What is pointless is to consider that only something on top is mainstream.
With the same reasoning Twitter isn't mainstream nor Instagram.
You write stuff online privately because it is expensive and difficult to meet in person. This should be obvious, didn't they taught you that at the FBI?
Announcement where they admit sponsoring the whole thing under the pretense of surfing for a week in March 2013. Take a look at the agenda and try to guess how much they surfed: https://signal.org/blog/spring-break-of-code/
A description of the notable guests, some kept refusing to admit being there until completely exposed: https://streetwiseprofessor.com/be-there-aloha/
If you observe, that agency had just opened up their business there one year earlier to focus on "signal intelligence": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Cryptologic_Center
And then the "signal" algorithm was oficially announced to public a few months later that year.
Signal is shit. Lets be honest,
I used to be bullish about encrypted chat applications. Now not so much.
I have trust in certain encryption technologies, but not when wrapped up nicely with a convenience bow on top, by profit targeted companies.
If it’s too convenient, I don’t trust it anymore. Privacy and convenience are enemies.
I’ll stick with good old PGP thanks
Thank you.
Signal is the middle finger to bulk data collection, not the state.
When you piss off even one man, as long as he isn't in a cage, your life is in his hands. Now apply that to people with a badge who's job it is to spy, lie and kill.
In low-tech 1950's Russia you couldn't even whisper to your closest friend, and nobody was walking around with a tape recorder.
Free speech is an ideal, and no person or document will guarantee your rights. Wake up, you aren't in 5th grade anymore, you can live in reality.
If you want rights, you must seize them, protect them, and defend them for others.
Precisely.
The FUD is also coming from people who generally don't contribute anything meaningful in any form to the causes they criticise available solutions for, just want to have the last word and be praised for being right.
The intentions matter and in all honesty I believe it boils down to the need of validation from strangers on the internet when stating those opinions rather than concern for user's privacy.