I still can't believe people continue to pay $70 bucks a month for #primal 🤣🤣. A client, with a whole team of devs, who can't even fix their notifications bug, which has been there for over a year. Stop wasting your money people. You could be stacking quite a bit if you just stop paying. #randomthoughts
Discussion
A lot of the notes I boost don't even show up on primal. I don't understand if they're censoring folks as some claim, or if it's that they don't allow cross relay promotion? It's a shame because I see that as the best way to discover new folks, and the attitude on the primal trending pages is super stale.
They need to be open to more talking points than just the Bitcoin influencers and the anti-zionists. It's hard enough to onboard normies without the toxic boys club on Primal.
Lack of cross relay integration is clearly by design, imo. They just want what the Primal team, and what their influencers talk about, to trend. It's a client that strictly adheres to the attention-starved influencer mentality. Barely anything educational with little meaningful engagement.
Yea I agree. They could at least get better influencers, the ones on primal trending seem like they mostly regurgitate Twitter outrage content and it's boring, like there's a reason I left legacy social media come on bring a fresh take.
This is why i love Jumble. The ability to choose content from one specific relay, at a time, is an essential feature for any Nostr client, imo.
Yup now someone tell vitor that so he can stop breaking amethyst.
I left Amethyst awhile ago. Fun while it lasted🤷.
Does Amythest not do this? I get a variety of content on Amythest but if I can get more on Jumble I'd be tempted 🤔
Amethyst pulls straight from the relays of who you follow, pretty much the polar opposite of primal. It doesn't do single relay browsing like jumble does though. They are the best two clients in my opinion, each have their strengths.
Amethyst just places all content from your follows into your feed.
Ok good that's what I thought it did
Amethyst now you automatically connect to every relay that's on a person's profile if you follow them. So if one npub got 1000 relays & you follow it now your just automatically connected to all those relays & you have to block the ones you don't want to be connected to manually. It causes global feed to load clunky that half the notes won't even load properly, notifications got worse since this big change & now theres bugs that still waiting on fixes for over 2 months now?
I have to switch between apps now just to see notes load properly. Half the time I look at my own profile from amethyst & not even 2/3rds of my notes load. Every other client you can see em all.
Oh that's very interesting! I don't know that I ever look at global so I haven't had that problem, but I can understand how it would be an issue!
you have to broadcast the note to the primal relay, boosting alone doesn't necessarily do this.
Ah! This is a nuance that I didn't understand previously, thank you for bringing it up! Would proper protocol be to boost and broadcast, or would just broadcasting it suffice?
boosting references the note on your list of kind 1 events to your relays, but broadcasting copies the event to your relays
nostr is dumb lol
I think most apps will broadcast on a boost. YMMV depending on client of course.
Hmm ok but as a client primal does not do this? Maybe it is primal which is dumb not just Nostr?
Could be. I'm not sure as a avoid primal.
Hmm ok. I think it's time for me to figure out a wallet outside of primal then... I'm hosting an event next week and hope to onboard folks to Nostr but while I knew I didn't love primal I didn't realize it was that problematic.
Good luck at your event. I recommend trying Blink wallet or maybe Minibits.
Ok I will check these out too thank you!
That's a dumb rule.
Subscription me harder, daddy.
I bet they all have all of the streaming services too.
seventy dollars? surely seven dollars, no?
Here. I reinstalled it just to show you how ridiculous this price is.
lol I can have the same or more for less other than paying for a vanity "Legend" status.
meanwhile on #Amethyst...
Jumble is where it's at. At least, for the moment.
Jumble is good, Cody did a good job, and people are building neat stuff on top of it. The latest builds of Amethyst too. No more missing notes, plus real decentralization, it's better than ever. Plus list support and way better video compression in the next version.
Amethyst just takes too damn long to load anything. Jumble loads everything in an instant: single relay-based feeds, pictures, videos, notifications. You name it.
I've not had that issue with Amethyst personally. Loads fast, even better for me since the outbox update. Could be I am on fast connections all the time, but even with Tor enabled for everything it seems pretty snappy.
I actually get that with jumble, a long wait sometimes when first opening the page, especially when viewing the following feed.
I'm going to try it on my Linux box. (Jumble)
It's my preferred desktop client for sure. nostr:nprofile1qqsgzfdez8ksa9xmuvqg5zly3nl9e5xqkpvj8nllj9aw06ra4pqq3qcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7q2uwaehxw309ac8ymmc0yhxummnw3ez6un9d3shjtnpwpcz7ct9xvcxycfjxvmnycm9vsmxxvfexccxgdpevvcryd3kvejxgvm9xqmkxetpx5exyvtzvcenwwrxv33rvwp5v9jk2d3nxcekgetrxsmqqltm2c also makes a relay solution for desktop OS.
I just installed the Amethyst update. It's a little faster than before. Still can't compare to #jumble though.
Honestly, i find that kind of strange. cause i have a fairly weak connection in my house. Maybe you have too many relays?
I'd say my relays are fine, 3 each inbox and outbox. Lots of people followed my note for setting Amethyst relays up with good results.
Jumble and Amethyst work in the same way in the background fundamentally, full outbox where they connect to hundreds of relays for receiving & sending notes. I always just assumed it is browser over head, and jumble needing to pull in the initial load of notes.
Could be the browser (I run Jumble through Keychat) or maybe the relays you're using are too slow🤔. Idk.
My relay settings
It's the same on Keychat, Firefox or Chrome. Also it's the same relays on both apps, so I don't see that making much of a difference speed wise. If the relays were slow, it would affect both.
Browser apps are generally slower than native apps, there's just more overhead, it's the nature of the beast.
It's not a big deal, I prefer Amethyst on mobile anyways.
Cool
what's Keychat?
A browser with built in Nostr signing. Very handy for Nostr web apps.
The following feed can be quite slow, since it doesn’t just fetch from your own relay settings — it also pulls from the relays used by all the people you follow. I saw you’re following over 400 users, which could mean fetching from more than a hundred relays. I wouldn’t really recommend browsing the following feed with Jumble for now. Hopefully, in the future, there’ll be relays dedicated to serving following feeds.
Can you implement something like the proxy relay setting in Amy? aggr.nostr.land works quite well, and I believe nostr.wine has a similar feed relay too.
As far as I know, aggr.nostr.land does plan to implement the outbox model, but it doesn’t seem to be finished yet. Once it is, I’d be happy to support it — that would significantly reduce performance overhead.
I suppose YMMV but it works well as a proxy in my personal testing so far. nostr:nprofile1qqs99d9qw67th0wr5xh05de4s9k0wjvnkxudkgptq8yg83vtulad30gpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgkwaehxw309askwemj9ehx7um5wghxcctwvshsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjme0e68ksk what is the status?
The goal is that for broadcasts it will use outbox. For receiving, it scrapes all relays so that should be a solved problem.
But I am intending to add a proxy mode where it can AUTH proxy as well
I don't fully understand what you mean. Jumble allows users to choose feeds from individual relays. It's been doing fine with following feeds. Are you sayikg some posts from my follows won't show up in my chosen feeds?
Jumble is mainly designed for browsing content directly from a specific relay. Nowadays, there are special types of relays like community relays, curated relays, or language-based relays. When you browse these, it’s independent of who you follow — the data only comes from that single relay, which makes it much faster.
The following feed, on the other hand, fetches notes from the write relays set by all the users you follow. That means it needs to pull data from dozens or even hundreds of relays and then aggregate them, so it’s naturally much slower.
Thank you for clearing that up. So we need to do a better job at designating the different types of relays. Do community, curated, and language-based relays have a secure method of distinguishing read and write relays?
Honestly, there isn’t a reliable way to distinguish them right now, since the boundaries are quite blurry. Users still need to understand what each relay they use is for, which isn’t very user-friendly. The good news is that most relays today are unrestricted public ones.
What do you think of adding local storage of notes specifically for the following feed + building the feed directly from the local storage + background syncing of new notes from follows from relays? Would you accept a patch for that?
This would be amazing.
nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl nostr:npub1qdjn8j4gwgmkj3k5un775nq6q3q7mguv5tvajstmkdsqdja2havq03fqm7 nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf nostr:npub1fjqqy4a93z5zsjwsfxqhc2764kvykfdyttvldkkkdera8dr78vhsmmleku any input on this?
Id really like that, one of the remaining features that keeps me on nostrudel is that with slow relay loading I don't have to sit and wait for my notes to load every time I refresh the page (which is often enough to be annoying). I didn't realize that jumble lacked this feature until I started trying to use it more regularly.
Could just be me, with privacy browsers, dns, being blocked by cloudflare, and privacy blocking extensions apps get buggy for me really fast so I often have to reload the page just to make sure im seeing things,
That would definitely make the experience better, but I’m not sure if it’s the right approach for a web client. Still, it’s worth trying
Also, try not to include relays with write restrictions as your read relays — that could cause you to miss notifications when others mention you.
wow I did not know that there are people paying for the premium. what do you get from it? btw, what do you use as your mobile client?
I use it in my mobile too ☺️ ty even writing this on #Yakihonne 👌
nostr:npub17n4cuc4d6y6qh89dekvxrenfkt5s0n49xns00uavjaxpr36c55dq87fyh9 much thanks to nostr:npub1syjmjy0dp62dhccq3g97fr87tngvpvzey08llyt6ul58m2zqpzps9wf6wl for making a great client.
Enjoy it!
Just a minor bug, but sometimes it says users have 0 following.
I am using it also on my pc ☺️ ty
Which user?
Random users. The bug comes and goes.
You should support nostr:npub17n4cuc4d6y6qh89dekvxrenfkt5s0n49xns00uavjaxpr36c55dq87fyh9. The best Nostr client and with just one developer working on it and not full time, haha.
What are the features that are the most important on Primal Studio? I'm curious, and I'm actually writing something for my own team so that we don't have to pay $70/mo
Try nostr:nprofile1qqszpxr0hql8whvk6xyv5hya7yxwd4snur4hu4mg5rctz2ehekkzrvc64twc2 — it’s fully decentralized, works with all Nostr clients, and lets you customize your relays and wallet in just one tap.
I agree, and the team is very responsive, they often acted very well when we suggested improvements or reported issues.
