People should come to Nostr with already some idea of how Nostr works, like at least a picture of a diagram of clients connecting to multiple relays. Is that asking too much?
Discussion
Yes. They just want to post and browse. Why should they know?
You don’t know how the ignition works in a car when you hop in and start to drive.
Yes but they generally know how a car works before they use it
It is.
What’s the deeper problem?
Where would that live? Nostr.com? TikTok?
Wikipedia? 🙃
Good question.
They have a name for that.
War crimes and stuff besides the crimes against humanity. 
nostr:npub1r0rs5q2gk0e3dk3nlc7gnu378ec6cnlenqp8a3cjhyzu6f8k5sgs4sq9ac had a good idea about making short introduction videos about relays, keys and nostr in general :)
Could also be part of client onboarding.
"Nostr is different. Instead of using one central server, nostr uses interchangeable relays to hold your data."
"By holding your keys, you are in control of your profile. Nobody but you can modify your speech or silence you."
Okay sorry to be soooo normie here, but even the word “keys” is very specific to a set of people. I’m sure it can be inferred what it means, but I could also see people being like, is that a password, a physical drive, why are they calling it keys, etc?
I even think relays kind of needs to be explained, I didn’t exactly understand them when I first started.
What would attract me would be saying that my data is not owned by a centralized corporation. there are a bunch of small entities that can hold the data in nostr, but it’s up to me in which entities it’s held. I am 100% in control of my profile, what I see, where my data is being held. Nobody but me can modify my speech or silence me
(Which is essentially what you said, in more “normie” terms)
And bring up other companies. Are you tired of meta deciding what you see? Are you tired of Twitter showing you what Elon wants to see? Are you mad that big corporations are using all of your private data to control every aspect of your life? Then guess what… alternatives exist.
And going back to @fiatjaf original point, a basic diagram explaining the concept of relays and connecting is a good idea
Sure, it should be understandable to normies, but not everything can be abstracted away. People had to learn what email addresses are, and now they'll have to learn what keys are.
Spot on. This idea of obfuscating keys is dumb. If explaining to an alien our legacy login system and keys, keys are waaaaayy simpler. Also, the whole point is we are arming people with the most powerful tool of liberation, public key crypto.
Also it's not like the basic concept of keys is somehow super complex and hard to grasp.
To me this point is the greatest hurdle in society, at least in the US.
Normie land has gone so far to the “just give me the short or simple version.” That no one understands the foundations of anything.
Everyone is just in it to make a quick buck and move on to the next dollar or thing as fast as possible. Everything feels like a big sale without anyone having real interest other than how quickly can money be made.
Zackly.
nostr:note1z6g4dz4gz5n7ydfae0ph5ftcx3evydnhz4r7k2l7axamxsymc0eqm8e7lk
Zackly.
nostr:note1z6g4dz4gz5n7ydfae0ph5ftcx3evydnhz4r7k2l7axamxsymc0eqm8e7lk
Normies will have to learn what "keys" are. They managed to learn what penicillin, microwaves and email is, they will manage this one too, no need to be condescending.
FIDO/"passkeys" are being pushed now, that's the avenue into the key lifestyle.
https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-default-google-accounts/
Its not difficult to figure out what keys are. Its how to handle it responsibly on your own is difficult. And WHY it makes sense is what should be explained
Microwaves are extremely dangerous (not that in the kitchen but those flying in the air) thats why there are tons of regulations and policies enforced by govts
Even if its not best experience recovering lost gmail of AppleID password its still possible at least in courts eventually. People don’t want to live in fear that if they hwallet/paper/brain is lost - they MUST forget about all of their wealth/identity
Shut up
Which tool has the highest user counts ? And wider range worldwide so far? Goes with the number.
Or would it be possible to use both at the lowest (or 0 ) cost, one as a simplified lead wire, diverting/guiding stream to Nostr.com eventually with more comprehensive instructions?
(Sorry just hard to get rid of the Cheap Freak character. 🤦🏻♀️)
If someone cane to with a good thing I am sure nostr:npub1c878wu04lfqcl5avfy3p5x83ndpvedaxv0dg7pxthakq3jqdyzcs2n8avm would allow us to put it on nostr.com, but I think we could have many attempts, each in a different place.
isn’t it some beauty to not knowing too. if you’re open minded enough you will eventually learn.
on the other hand, many people aren’t as open minded so I’m understand where you’re coming from
i think would be great if nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m and nostr:npub1sn0wdenkukak0d9dfczzeacvhkrgz92ak56egt7vdgzn8pv2wfqqhrjdv9 made a featured youtube video about explaining this lol
ffff i cant type 😤
Frankly, yes. They may have never even heard of it until minutes before joining.
Yes
It's very hard and totally not interesting to non-tech oriented people to find out what is happening behind the screens.
They want to use and support the right thing, but they don't have the interest or capacity to learn how it works.
Speaking for myself and millions of others.
Use your fund to pay someone dummy
Let's all put some coin together and get nostr on the time square bill board! Hahah
NO. I agree, I think to have a healthy network of users that build the platform, a minimum understanding such as you described should be the minimum.
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got"
Without education, were either setting expectations for failure, or eventually catering to the marginal user. If that's what the CEO of nostr and others want, then I guess it won't be a place for me and thats okay. Many social media has come and gone. I don't believe the majority of "conversation" that happens on twitter is a net positive for humanity and I don't want to see nostr devs attract that user group.
Honestly I’m surprised it doesn’t exist yet.
Your message is garnering a lot of interest.
Added to the https://nostraco.in/hot feed
I was looking for that diagram 😅
Is there one?
Alice using Client Y <--- magic ---> Bob using Client Z
what relays?
Yes, it’s like saying you should come to life with a diagram of how everything works 🤷🏻♂️
There's ONLY 3 things nornies need to understand.
1: instead of email and password you have a secret passcode to login.
2: instead of posting to twitter's database you post you multiple decentralised databases.
Because of 1&2 you are anonymous, your posts cannot be censored, and you can use the same passcode to login anywhere on NOSTR.
We shouldn’t tell people that it’s anonymous.
Your IP address is associated to your posts. If I were the govt, I would be running nostr relays collecting all the good stuff: eg. Who DMs whom, what you post and your IP address, etc.
Nostr is far too small for any govt to invest resources into that kind of tracking operation.
MUCH easier to force disclosure of that info from apple, google, twitter, FB, IG, tiktok, Reddit, medium and all the other centralised platforms that make up 99% of all social communications on the internet.
Just so long as it’s clear to people that nostr isn’t anonymous and that govts could track us whenever they want. I suspect that, because all messages are broadcast without encryption (like emails), they are being logged for future analysis (like Snowden revealed).
IMHO, this is nostr’s biggest flaw. We can’t have censorship resistance without privacy. I expect people will start censoring themselves as soon as someone is punished for posting something.
I believe Nostr's privacy will evolve and it will become a non-issue.
Just got into nosr few minutes ago. Still have no idea on why I have the relays I have, and what relays to actively select for my account.