Nostr Web Client

I heard that there is an ongoing movement now for people that truly care about decentralization and censorship-resistance to only publish to small relays.

I believe nostr:nprofile1qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uq3wamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet59uq3zamnwvaz7te3xsczue3h0ghxjme0qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgsc2k8v3 and nostr:nprofile1qyd8wumn8ghj7urewfsk66ty9enxjct5dfskvtnrdakj7qgewaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8xmn0wf6zuum0vd5kzmp0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgz0easp will adhere, but while they don't at least nostr:nprofile1qyd8wumn8ghj7urewfsk66ty9enxjct5dfskvtnrdakj7qgewaehxw309a5x7ervvfhkgtnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uq3qamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd4hk6tcqyztuwzjyxe4x2dwpgken87tna2rdlhpd02va5cvvgrrywpddnr3jy5uqf05 , nostr:nprofile1qyd8wumn8ghj7urewfsk66ty9enxjct5dfskvtnrdakj7qgnwaehxw309ac82unsd3jhqct89ejhxtcpz9mhxue69uhnzdps9enrw73wd9hj7qpql2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqgh57r7 , nostr:nprofile1qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uq3kamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarjd93ksetn9ehhyee0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qpqutx00neqgqln72j22kej3ux7803c2k986henvvha4thuwfkper4s820ky4 and nostr:nprofile1qyf8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68yv339e3k7mf0qyw8wumn8ghj7cmgwf5hxarsd9kxctnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytndw46xjmnewaskcmr9wshxxmmd9uqzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ce2wlgd0 have already started.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

fiatjaf 1y ago

Also the people who should be reading this note won't see it, so what was the point?

PABLOF7z 1y ago

hahahahhahaa

the ultimate circle-jerk

Lucid 1y ago

Yes join us in glorious filth and wasted energy, join us PABZ

Patrick 1y ago

I'm connecting to one relay, that you don't publish to or have permission on, and I'm still reading these notes. I feel like that's got to count for a level of decentralization.

cloud fodder 1y ago

It's true, but also in nostr your reach is unavoidable. Clients will faithfully propagate the notez 🎵🎶 and somehow nostr.band uses telepathy to find some relay it never should have had a reason to see 😂

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

mainly because clients don't fucking work

Laeserin 1y ago

Did you unfollow me?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

yeah, i'm not sure why tbh

Laeserin 1y ago

Yay, we're follow frens again. ☺️

Laeserin 1y ago

If it weren't for band, I'd be completely invisible.

Laeserin 1y ago

Wine is my biggest relay.

You can see the volume/relay here:

https://stats.nostr.band/#relay_users

Laeserin 1y ago

Even wine is completely dwarfed by stuff like nos.lol

Happy₿ear🇮🇱 1y ago

who should be reading this?

Account deleted 1y ago

You have been quoted, message is seen if someone is willing to carry it further.

owen 1y ago

Do small relays become big relays? New here..

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 1y ago

Elastic is design can handle more connections

IF BECOMING BIG = MEANS CENTRALIZED hence avoid that relay

christo 1y ago

I didn't see this

Thanks

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 1y ago

Who will be " Relays Associations labor Union Commrade /Chairman/President " ? Jack or fiatjaf

PolymathicPedagogue 1y ago

Has anyone seen a list of up-and-coming relays that we could start publishing to?

I'm happy to add a few on!

#asknostr #nostr

nostr:note1dc2drrmdmlkcyna5kkcv8yls4f8zaj82jjl00xrh2tmmhw3ejsmscu6nft

Matt 1y ago

I'm still trying to figure out relays. Is the ultimate goal/solution to just have many more people running their own relays? If so, running relays would need to be A LOT easier, in my opinion.

hodlbod 1y ago

No, very few people should be running relays. We have probably 10x more relays than we need right now. The point is that if one relay goes down or bans you, you have at least one other relay that can continue to serve all your stuff. This doesn't require self-hosting.

90a3c8ea... 1y ago

tor provides government resistant backup

nostr:note1lrswfs4hncwk30fq75urdlhv4jgy50d97d247tvx7nhcx3r0wd7qf7h0qx

b7b8dffd... 1y ago

tor provides government resistant backup

nostr:note1lrswfs4hncwk30fq75urdlhv4jgy50d97d247tvx7nhcx3r0wd7qf7h0qx

5523506f... 1y ago

tor provides government resistant backup

nostr:note1lrswfs4hncwk30fq75urdlhv4jgy50d97d247tvx7nhcx3r0wd7qf7h0qx

2cb9e20f... 1y ago

tor provides government resistant backup

nostr:note1lrswfs4hncwk30fq75urdlhv4jgy50d97d247tvx7nhcx3r0wd7qf7h0qx

Uxellodunum 1y ago

I think a big part of the problem is that tech giants centralised TCP/IP to a point that big hosting companies can easily take part in censorship under the guise of regulatory pressure.

Self-hosted relays that are open are what we need - Better yet, nostr-client-intergrated-relays with meek or something of the like. No point in having multiple relays hosted by a singe company - That's still a high degree of centralisation, even if spread around the globe.

Can't remember which one it was, but I recall a desktop Nostr app with a built-in relay service, going over a tor tunnel. I have a feeling that's where Lume announced it was headed in the future - And I think that's the right step to go.

Nostr on websites is great from an accessibility perspective (hail PWAs I guess), but accessibility and censorship-resistance are not the same thing. I'd say anyone using nostr solely via websites is setting themselves up for trouble, at some point, somewhere, for some reason.

hodlbod 1y ago

I think you're right that DNS, TLS certificates, and ISPs are all chokepoints. Maybe something like i2p bridges or something could overcome that. But that's not specific to nostr, so we have the help of the broader freedom tech community available to us.

₿ruce Høpper 1y ago

I'm in!

utxo the webmaster 🧑‍💻 1y ago

Nobody can see this reply watch

themptyuniverse 1y ago

🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈

jamw 1y ago

👀

jack 1y ago

i’ll do it

Colby Serpa 1y ago

Those will just become the new “big relays” soon then… just moves the goalposts. It doesn’t solve the problem.

I think the current model mixed with clients as relays & outbox model as the fallback for finding the relays you need to sync with is key. 🔑

nostr:note14qapnc4hk6hwpwf9f6f2ja33d55rqn0nd8jshnx55d4yz5l0nucs3nlrf3

Colby Serpa 1y ago

I’m just gonna try to build it. No use in petitioning everyone, just like with GitNestr. One thing at a time though…

If it works well people can copy it to their clients. I’m sure we’ll run into hiccups along the way. Only way to find out is by coding it & experimenting first-hand.

Colby Serpa 1y ago

Summary:

nostr:note1f34555yl05xycj8cn0dm755rgktxyesp63tgcmqtwzl0ae0a8j5sgfmdnx

Change this if you want 1y ago

Diego Espinosa 🇵🇪 1y ago

how do you know if a relay is big or small?

jack 1y ago

mid

nobody 1y ago

until you repost your first trump video to hate on it and then smurfville starts all over again... but for a brief moment. 🎈

instead of what you hate, what is interesting or original -

Random Romania 1y ago

https://x.com/jack/status/1770567499018379268?s=20

Ask Musk to repost this to, do it publicly ;)

kate 1y ago

-dle class

nobody 1y ago

enforced "mid" is fascism. and profoundly uninteresting. in my opinion -

O masculinista 1y ago

Time response is a good meassure

Laeserin 1y ago

No, it isn't.

tigs 1y ago

Are we going to the cheapest relays that are charging sats? Or Free ones? Or Both! 😏

Currently using https://nostr.watch to have a look around. Cya's soon!

realjode 1y ago

That is so cool 👌🏽

mutatrum 1y ago

We're all introverts and moving to our own private relays.

El Guiri 1y ago

What is considered small? I’m about as useful with tech as captain caveman but have my little Linux machine arriving next week finally and was gonna set up a relay (sorry…. Try to). Worth it?

DanConwayDev 1y ago

this is good. thanks for doing the analysis which lead to this.

Majere 1y ago

Current #nostr controversy. Which side will you choose. Decentralize and continue to fight censorship or going back to the same data hoarding digital giants we were running from. #relaysize #gossip

nostr:nevent1qqsxu9x33akalmvzf76ttvxrj0c25n3wer4ff0hhnpm49aamhguegdcpz4mhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2un9d3shjtnrdaksygpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5psgqqqqqqsjujeqd

Daniele 1y ago

Where is a list of small relays?

And how to discriminate good / bad relays in general, regardless the size?

Laeserin 1y ago

https://nostr.watch/relays/find

hodlbod 1y ago

Coracle lists relays and shows how many people you follow are on each. It also drops the top few to encourage network decentralization.

Daniele 1y ago

That's... that would be great. I see nothing here 🤔

james r 1y ago

How do you feel being such a hero?

hodlbod 1y ago

Heavy is the head that wears the crown

ODELL 1y ago

REQUEST UNCLEAR.

MAYBE WE SHOULD RIP A DISPATCH TO DISCUSS THIS.

pukka 1y ago

Let’s hear this discussion!

PABLOF7z 1y ago

YES, THIS STUFF IS VERY IMPORTANT

Kieran 1y ago

YES PLS

Derek Ross 1y ago

I'm down to listen in. Let's do it.

punk 1y ago

I’d be interested.

Lucid 1y ago

YES

anon 1y ago

Yes please!

rustyspark 1y ago

Don’t forget to tell the plebs how to fund stuff so it doesn’t all just go quiet.

rustyspark 1y ago

Find!

marcelo 1y ago

LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN. nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 tá confuso pra caralho esse bagulho 🫡

alphakamp 1y ago

I pushed for this early on, butt the purple cats kept saying it was stupid and it will make the network worse. Are we still using strfry?

calle 1y ago

I would like to be able to publish to > 100 relays. Can this ever be possible without using a blastr?

hodlbod 1y ago

No, but why? Do you want to pay 100 relays to hold your notes? Broadcast is digital squatting, made possible only by taking advantage of hobbyist relay operators.

Laeserin 1y ago

Yeah, blastr wrote my German-language notes someplace in deepest Siberia, or something.

Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

Server operators should decisively decide what they will store, and what they will actually relay to other servers. One way to reduce server operating costs is to reduce the excessive amounts of network bandwidth consumed on retrieving duplicate notes across multiple servers. This is going to break down if users have to alacarte subscribe to multiple relays just to see the posts in their connection circles

Orange Crush 1y ago

We need broad adoption of strfry negentropy inter-relay note rectification protocol for this to work.

We need mid and small relays. Smalls talk to a few mids to limit data and rectify a smaller set of notes follows/followers of follows/followers and maybe some subscribed hash tags. Mids talk mainly to other mids and a unique groups of smalls and rectify a larger set of the follows/followers of follows/followers and hash tags of connected small relays.

I think a system with built in economics will create an incentivized, sustainable, durable, and decentralized network. Ecash attached to notes signed to relay keys is a possible economic model. Smalls collect ecash from users and pay to mids for updates. Network congestion could lead to these fees becoming dynamic. The alpha in the fees becomes the operational budget of small and mid relays. Federations of mids could group into fedimints or run their own cashu mints for settling balances and allowing lightning withdrawals.

joe 1y ago

How can you tell a relays size?

hodlbod 1y ago

It depends on what you mean by "size". There's WoT size, which is where more people you follow post to a given relay:

There are also relay monitoring systems like nostr.watch that are working on a system for reporting how many active users are on a relay, along with other metrics.