node count is easy to fake
anyone can spin up a shit ton of nodes relatively cheaply
this is why proof of work exists
Discussion
Phew. Few.
Which is why Luke's site excludeds AWS.
They are panicking. I just got banned from commenting on GitHub PR, and more surprises are coming. Spammers will spam.
This is false; a full node costs at least $ 100-200$ per month. A pruned node can cost $ 10$ per month, but it will still take many days or weeks to sync. And I am not mentioning the expertise and time it takes to do that. But hey, it won't make us stop zapping them up! 🪢 🪢 🪢
100-200 a month?! Are you good fam?
The storage is expensive. This is why spammers want to remove filters, which makes it even more costly, so nobody other than them can run a node and turn us into Ethereum and Solana.
Bro who the fuck runs a node like this?
I think it's costing me a few bucks a year to run my node 🙃.
What is your setup?
A laptop with core running on it.
How much does this laptop cost? How much is your internet bill? My response was to nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgqgzx3h claiming "anyone can spin up a shit ton of nodes relatively cheaply" can you spin up a shit ton of this laptop cheaply?
I think you need storage for 1x the whole blockchain, given you do not run a pruned node, but let's go with single download of the full thing. After that you could share the storage, spin up vm's at any cloudprovider that have ideal mem-cpu combinations to run as many nodes on a single machine as possible and then you repeat that. You could symlink all files in the blockchain to it and this way have 100-200 nodes for less than $50 a month i think. Probably cheaper.
You can mount the raw block files (blk*/rev*) in a single read‑only --blocksdir, but LevelDB’s chainstate is read‑write and lock‑protected, so every extra node still needs its own 10–12 GB chainstate, its peers/mempool logs, about 250–350 MB of RAM, and a slice of CPU for validation; scale that by 100 and you’re looking at roughly 1.2 TB of fast SSD, 25–35 GB of RAM, sustained high IOPS, and near‑gigabit bandwidth—resources that push a real‑world cloud bill into the hundreds of dollars per month, well beyond the “$50 for 100–200 fully validating nodes” target.
Tbh I didn't even read the OP, just your comment - you make a solid point 🙃
And you are a solid person, my friend
lol wut? You might be getting scammed or you’re doing something wrong.
I think you have a typo; did you mean I am getting spammed?
No, who are you paying $100–200 to for you to run a node?
Digital Ocean lets me spin up a "shit ton of nodes" relatively NOT cheap, do you know a better deal that will allow me spin them up relatively cheaply?
A full "archival" node on bare metal is doable for under $100. Probably *much* less if you put only the indexes on SSD and the blocks on HDD.
A pruned full node is doable at ~$10, as you say.
Either way, shouldn't take weeks to sync if you have multiple cores and know what you're doing.
care to elaborate the numbers?
oh okay, well if that's your standpoint then you could say that a node should rather cost 200/mo soon enough.
But it's like saying that eating dinner costs 100 because that's what a medium-high level restaurant makes you pay...
Can you elaborate on the low-level restaurant numbers that I can also order a “shit ton” relatively cheaply according to nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqnz0fd0?
ahah, when you're looking to get a shit ton of everything for cheap, you don't go to restaurants, you buy saver's packages at the local discount and fix it up yourself.
Regarding nodes, I guess you could get a server with enough RAM, storage space enough for one blockchain and then set up multiple nodes frankenstein system where only one writes to disk, and the others are limited to serving the blocks, I guess it could be feasible if you wanted to try.
A 2tb ssd is about 100 today or little more.
My comments are in the context of nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgqgzx3h saying: "anyone can spin up a ton of nodes relatively cheaply." Do you agree with that?
You can mount the raw block files (blk*/rev*) in a single read‑only --blocksdir, but LevelDB’s chainstate is read‑write and lock‑protected, so every extra node still needs its own 10–12 GB chainstate, its peers/mempool logs, about 250–350 MB of RAM, and a slice of CPU for validation; scale that by 100 and you’re looking at roughly 1.2 TB of fast SSD, 25–35 GB of RAM, sustained high IOPS, and near‑gigabit bandwidth—And thats not considering your time and effort expertise, monitoring, alerting and electricity cost.
thank you for the low level and much appreciated mansplaining, I have now a clear picture on how to do that and I know I hadn't just dreamt there was a way 🙂
I would say that a home-based diy monster plurinode like that could be considered "relatively" cheap, especially for an odell-level player, maybe he was referring to someone with vested interests and who can muster a decent amount of coins for this side project.
No idea if there are dependable stats, but most nodes around the world have to be home-based.
😆 Anytime! I suspect nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyvhwumn8ghj7um9dejxjapwdehhxenvv9ex2tnrdaksepv2a6 might be upset that nostr:nprofile1qqsg3mj8tuxhxvy5w0qt9altpgcrqttdfxg9glvsdfhkpa3plcxfudgppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnzd96xxmmfdejhytnnda3kjctv9uqsl038 is gaining steam and was trying to downplay the fact that it is up to 5000 nodes already, and picking up.
also means that plebs can spin up nodes cheaply 🫣
Is that like some shitcoin tps jiggery pokery with theoretical throughput and voting counted as tx's? The PoW never lies.
Don't try to derail Roger ver 2.0's mission, man!
I would zap this but for some reason my primal wallet isn’t working
This is true.
💯 🫡
Also your shit ton of nodes dont make any difference in the network if they only talk to themselves...
By default a node is connected to a maximum of125 other nodes and shares its mempool with them. This numbre can be changed in the settings.
Sure my point is: if someone changes the rules, the network does not get worse if only one user has tons of nodes accepting those rules
Because others are okay with abusing thé network that may very well be our only shot at creating a new sort of money and end endless wars, doesnt mean i have to be a part of it.
In theory if a highly productive miner is geographically surrounded by a large number of heavy spamfiltering knots nodes it would not mine a lot of trash anymore. The miner would have to look for trash customers by itself to mine for them.
Always has been. Still going to run the node software I believe in the most.
yes, absolutely
more people should run and use their own nodes
For example, I have two. Proof of work is important like you said in the other post.
Are you implying that you think the rise in knots running is inorganic? Because it's not.
but github votes? these are the ultimate signaling mechanism
Yes true 🤟
People are free to run what ever software they want. That’s what separates bitcoin from everything else
yes 🎯
Yeah, that makes sense especially after a lot of people have told new people that Bitcoin is a safe, steady bet in financial freedom.
I don't even waste time trying to get new people into Bitcoin. It's a big mess and it's getting worse.
Do I like it, yes, but I can't take any time to help others when my own tools have changed year to year. If you can do this, then you are dishonest and just a huckster who is all about getting people on board with no follow up.
At least when it comes to software and operating systems there are basic skills that transfer to other platforms. If Bitcoin on chain has lost its conservative appeal then all other tools built in top are useless.
The shitcoin nonsense has come full circle.
