Day 3 of asking monero people to just *show me* an LN transaction so I can see what info they can glean from it
Can you see what channel or address *sent* the money? Can you see what channel or address *received* it? Can you see the *amount sent*? Can you see the *fee paid*?
So far they can't even *show me* a transaction on LN -- let alone any information from it
Calling nostr:nprofile1qqs0npwnpyvheqz7zuvuwvv9k460c0hyqlturds40hhfn34vufvehwcpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkchsknr3 and nostr:nprofile1qqs27aqdrx96hwx8hqks53ccav65hvlk47dfscumsh22tncnw89t4pgpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dslku2wh -- maybe yall can help?
What is the % of LN usage on dark web markets? 0%
What is the most used currency on dark web markets nowadays? Monero
What is the most used coin in white markets that accept both coins Monero and bitcoin? Monero
There is no better explanation that the choice of who has the skin in the game and can't make mistakes and have leaks.
I THINK THIS EXPLAIN EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW
END OF STORY
Totally agree! Monero is killing it on both dark and white markets. People want privacy and security, and it shows! Thanks for breaking it down so clearly! 🔒💰 #MoneroMadness
Well, if something is used more than any other thing, doesn't necessarily mean it is better. We have tons of examples in real life. For example, Linux is way better than Windows, and yet 98% of people continue to use Windows.
People have their believes.
Using windows is not a belive. Some lazzyness. Lack of knoladge. Comfort zone. Any othere. . Issue here is that testnen is annoyying with his statments. There is no perfect tool. Just stop being twat
Well all those things come out of believes, like believing it is going to be very difficult or unconfortable. Knowledge and wisdom only comes after you question your current believes. Ignorant people are always those that learn once and attach to their believes for ever.
#realtalk brotha
You are talking about different things, when you have your life and freedom in danger you will use the best for the job, and it's not a case of preference because of pride or comfort.
This is life or death use case, and is in extreme cases that you see what is the best.
But your point is truth in the way that in not a life or death case people tend to not choose the best solution, look to btc market cap for exemple 👀😉
I don't think you are right, even in death use cases people adhere to stupid believes. For example, the stupid believe that a vaccine can cure you out of an imaginary virus.
Doesn't that apply to Bitcoin too? Just because it is used more doesn't mean it is better.
Do you think Monero will overtake bitcoin in about 10-15 years or so? I think it might
There's at least one DNM using LN ( Tor-based instance of nostr:nprofile1qqs2xugc5jyguqkj36rk0syv4tmnkjdtmtperttl7x9rqjy3ustdcvcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qg6waehxw309aek2mnyd96zumn0wdnxcctjv5hxxmmd9uxa0uz8 ), so it can't be 0%.
If you can see the flow of transactions (and thus are able to compare currency flows to those of other currencies) on a DNM, it's not private.
People spend Monero more because it's worse money (Gresham's Law).
I wouldn't say worse money, I would say easier to replace.
Monero incentivizes a circular economy because anyone easily can mine it, or buy it from the same places you can with Bitcoin*, and it's more affordable*, it's used as cash more because it has the more cash like principle, lightning feels more credit like in my opinion.
Monero maintains a more reliable price point, and gradually increases overtime typically, so it's more predictable as determination of price.
(*DEX, Kraken, and Some ATMs)
(*currently)
Do you really think that who is using Monero is one that has bitcoin and everytime thry have to do a transaction makes a swap? 👀
You don't know Monero community for sure..
That is the excuse that your fav influencers say to have an argument for this, but its not applied here, if that was the case Monerists would be using FIAT 👀
Its not because it has an onion adress that the service is a DNM service..
All DNMs are used for is to deposit or withdraw transactions. No one is using them as their personal wallets. If Lightning was on DNMs it would have the same issue.
If the reason DNMs are adopting something was because of Gresham's Law there would be much better(worse?) crypto to do that with than Monero.
It's the strong default privacy and relative ease of use vs the alternatives.
Lightning wouldn't have the same issue in that case because there's no transaction trace on Lightning, but there is on Monero.
Gresham's law only applies in the context of a market that accepts both Monero and Bitcoin (or any other currency). If the option is there to pay in Bitcoin or Monero, most will choose Monero because it's worse to hold. If the only option is Monero, then that doesn't apply.
DNMs typically have custodial wallets (the market itself is escrowing funds for the sellers and buyers) so that would make zero difference (this is how markets exit and rug everyone in the first place). You would have the same situation of no privacy from the market for any funds on it.
So DNMs just decided to switch over to a coin with a tiny fraction of Bitcoins liquidity for fun? DNMs had to decide to introduce Monero in the first place out of all the other crypto alternatives out there. They weren't simply doing it because of Greshams law. Strong default privacy in a highly adversarial environment and very cheap transaction fees were the real reasons.
Not if the escrow is an ecash mint or a market of agents.
And sure, you can adopt it for those technical reasons, and that is the free market at work, but in the long-run I think it won't hold as a reliable currency for reasons not just tied to privacy. In the future, Monero will probably be utilized as just an intermediate swapping currency (which ecash mints can already act as and in my opinion will evebtually supercede the usage of Monero), but even in that case people don't want to hold it, they want to get rid of it. Cash is a perfect comparison: I use it because it's more private than my credit card, but I don't want to hold it. This is most obviously evident with the XMR/BTC price chart. I'm not arguing that Bitcoin is better at privacy with this point (though, there are ways to make it more private), just that it is better money.
Maybe. We'll see what happens. I really don't care as long as it has strong privacy, is self-custodial, and relatively easy to use.
Lightning uses onion routing.
Tor implemented onion routing, which Lightning copied.
Try reading the Tor whitepaper, it's right there at the beginning what onion routing can't protect you against: a global passive adversary.
A GPA has existed for many years. It's called the NSA.
Onion routing doesn't provide you with the privacy and anonymity you think it does, sorry.
(but it's better than nothing)
Completely agree. The best way to preserve your privacy and anonymity online is to not use the internet.
Yes, but that's not what I meant, and I think you know it.
Look at https://nym.com for one example of what could become the golden standard.
Technology progresses, both offensive and defensive. The people who run the DNMs and the people who use them know well that LN is not sufficient, and that's why they don't use it.
This is the free market doing its thing.
Try not to look at this like "XMR rocks baby, LN sucks!", but more like dispassionately observing and acknowledging the facts and adjusting your threat model accordingly.
Yeah, I don't look at it in the way that one is better at privacy, so hence the other is bad; it's more of me saying Monero isn't AS good as those who love it say it is either (as we've seen with some evidence of deanonymizong/tracing back transactions), so users of both need to adjust their threat models.
I have other issues with Monero that I believe make it unsuitable for a secure and reliable market currency in the long-run. Free flowing, uncensorable markets should be the default, not just darknet sites for others to search out for, so they must be accessible and have the ability to spread rapidly, which I think LN and ecash allow for more readily (while still preserving privacy, albeit not perfectly) as they are tied to a much better money.
They both have their issues and their workarounds, for sure.
Personally I find Monero easier to understand so I prefer to use it, and as long as there is a non-centralized bridge back and forth between Monero and Bitcoin, I am happy.
Different tools and competition between them is a good thing imo. People will choose as they choose, for their own reasons, and one way or another, they will reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of their own choices.
I think it's harder to ask for anything better than that 👍.
This is the way; the free market at work. 🤝
