Do Christians Need To Support Israel?
https://blossom.primal.net/43586202edb97bdda53006bebd59bd053118f8d8a06db0e960456d48a44f44d9.mp4
Discussion
Very important topic, thank you Matthew. Bad theology leads to bad actions
Good stuff.
I am getting tired of people using Genesis 12:2-3 as a "support Israel" club. God spoke these words to Abraham as he's leaving his home forever. They are meant to be an encouragement to him, not an order to everyone else. Ignoring these words led to problems for Abraham in Egypt and other places, where instead of trusting God, he lied to the leaders about his relationship with Sarah. He didn't give them a chance to bless him or allow God to curse them if they did wrong to Abraham.
The question is how does this personal encouragement apply to us and the nation of Israel? It's a huge hermanuetical stretch to say that it had the post-Temple world in mind. Being aligned with God's faithful is the interpretive key concept, not some ethic group. Even today, every evangelical Christian will wholeheartedly admit that the entire nation of Israel is utterly rejecting God, starting with the Zionist athiest Benjamin Netanyahu himself. Love them if you want, but we are told by Paul to not be unequally yoked.
Good thoughts, and I want to add and amplify them... As I understand that encouragement, to bless Israel is to go into Israel, which is not a place, but more like an adventure. You're blessed of you take the leap into the unknown. The universe seems to conspire to help you if you try. Israel is also Christ, which has similar meanings, if you really dig into it. To curse Israel is to curse the journey, the risk, the adventure of life - and since God made the world so you can do that stuff, then cursing Israel is cursing God. The nation state has nothing to do with it - and in fact, the concept of nation states didn't exist until thousands of years after the events in Genesis, so it is literally impossible for that section to be talking about the state which is now parasitically squatting on that name.
Good point about the nation-state matter. For hundreds of years after Abraham, it was a family. While his family became Israel after the Exodus and took on the organization of a nation, which God HAD promised to him, it doesn't then follow that what we see now is that nation.
Netanyahu himself isn't an ethnic Jew, a fact that was used against him several years ago in Israel by his political opponents and that he weakly disputed. What we're looking it is a political organization that wraps itself if this so-called Jewish promise, but that's just propaganda since not a one of them can prove they descend from Abraham.
Are there any ethnic Jews anywhere? Idk, never thought to ask that before... But if not, then perhaps the destruction of Judea by the romans was God's work. Purely hypothetical... But since we now have people twisting scripture for their selfish gain, essentially blaspheming, then it wouldn't surprise me if they were destroyed so that we could see the falseness of this group's claims.
Some quick duckducking about is telling me... Good luck getting to the bottom of that, lol. Oy vey.... A project.
I would be surprised to see this round of "Israel" destroyed as well. It hates God, Christ, and Christians allowing any of it in only to the extent that it can profit off of the tourist business and misplaced financial support.
The apostle Paul wrote "They are not all 'Israel' who are of/from Israel," and also that there is an "Israel of God". "Israel" today, in the sense that God recognizes, as I understand it, are those who are in covenant with Him, by sacrifice. This sacrifice was made by the Messiah, Jesus. The present-day secular State and even nation of Israel is not same entity as the ancient covenant people of God called Israel.
While the covenant view is disputed, I think it is consistent with what Paul is saying. Suggesting that the church is not Israel seems misguided by those who want to distance themselves from the historic church.
Problems initially sure but somehow he kept coming out the other side with more livestock, slaves and shekels. By the third time i started to think this was intentional
hmm. interesting point. I hadn't looked at it that way.
And the pharoah or king everytime looked at Abraham like dude WTF?! Why is an angel of God the one to warn me?
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As a believer in Christ, I have a much higher opinion of Islam than of Judaism. No comparison, really. Why do I say, "as a believer in Christ?" Because Muslims are good people. That's obvious. They submit to God ; Jews force others to submit to themselves. The latter is the meaning of Antichrist.
Great video! I need to share this with some extended family that has long regurgitated a lot of Christian Zionism propaganda
When Israel acts are just yes, Christians should support it. Chistians should support everything that is just and fair.
As someone who runs a Bitcoin node (which is just my humble way of saying I prefer thinking independently), I suggest stepping back from the political theatrics. The USA and Israel are fundamentally aligned—and that's hardly hidden; their opponents openly label the USA as the "Great Satan" and Israel as the "Little Satan." It's also worth remembering, humbly, that Jesus himself was Jewish.
I did enjoy your efforts here. Thanks Matthew.
💯conclusion
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#stopwar #grownostr
Sorry, you lost me on this one with all the religious ‘this, that and the other.’
I’m absolutely against people killing each other. But once someone is dead and lying on a slab, you can do an autopsy but you won’t find Christians, Muslims, Jews or any other religion within the organs, bone, flesh and sinew.
All the religious stuff exists in the brain’s living synapses.
Kratter lost me long ago saying "doj coin" instead of "doggie coin"
Seems like you don't get views on YouTube without being a glowie shill
There is no moral obligation for a Christian to support the state of Israel just because of their ties to Abraham, especially if the government is doing something wrong. In general, however, my perception of the nation is that its values are closely aligned to Christian values, so I tend to favor the things they do. I think I would have an easier time living in Israel than in Iran, for example. Iran sponsors terrorism and stirs up trouble in the region, whereas Israel primarily fights to maintain their existence among so many who want to wipe them out.
Jaws are those who rejected Christ and by doing so also rejected their Christian roots. Christ's church was called Israel and it has nothing to do with the barbaric "state" holding deceptivly the same name. To become a member of Israel you become Christian and it does not matter what is your race, ethnic origin or where you live. The support for the state if Israel has nothing to do with Christianity.
No.
The key key element in this, is the most holy Virgin Mary.
But you can't understand that except if you are an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
I ll try to explain briefly - so I ll lose the details, but it's ok.
🔸 Catholics believe that Virgin Mary was born "differently". But that raises the question: why God haven't done that to a grandchild of Eve, let's say, so thinks won't go that far for the humanity?
🔸 Protestants believe (generally ofcourse, you can't count the churches and denominations any more) that Virgin Mary was in the "right place the right time". If God was about to choose another timeline, a different woman would have been chosen.
But this is not what Eastern Orthodox believe. Virgin Mary reached the "maximum holiness" that a human could ever reach, of course with the grace of God but also using the tradition and faith in the true God which was given to her by the Israeli culture.
How God could make his word and truth withstand in time?
God used the concept of "nation".
Nation is a conservative mechanism which seeks uniformity to the society by keeping values, language, belifs etc.
God connected the belief in him with the well-being of the nation of Israel, so ar least out of selfishness they would keep the true faith, until this could have been used in its ultimatum by Virgin Mary.
After Jesus was born things changed.
The first "enemies" of Jesus was state representatives and the Israeli customs and traditions.
After his crucifixion and death on the cross, the concept of "nations" is obsolete. There is no need for nations any more.
Apostole Paul says there is only one "nation", the "nation of Christians".
Apostole Peter also got late to realize that but he finally did.
Until today national or tribal traditions and costumes are often the "enemies" of the Christianity's expanding.
So no, we don't need to support Israel by any means.
Catholics believe The Virgin Mary was conceived without Original Sin, ie: The Immaculate Conception.
Born ‘differently’ is rather vague.
We’d further say The Church is the new Israel, in the nee Covenant. That doesn’t speak to the notion of support for or against the modern nation-state of Israel, beyond refutting some of the more extreme ‘Christan’ takes on such.
About the "differently", I said in the beginning of my response that I wouldn't go into details. This was already a large answer, and taking into account that the question of "supporting Israel" was about Christians, I supposed that the details are more or less known.
The question for the Catholics still remain: since being born "like that" was out of Virgin Mary's control, why didn't God decide this to happen earlier in the history of Humanity.
I mean there are also other questions to be asked, but let's not diverge from our main theme here.
When it comes to nations, they are often an "obstacle" to Christianity.
We accept those parts of the ethnical traditions that do not oppose Christianity.
We are not obliged to support any nation unconditionally.
I 100% agree on your last point. The idea that so many people think otherwise, in the present day, is mind boggling - especially as it isn’t even their own country.
No
Of course they do. Christianity is a slave religion.