This is honestly a really sad day. As Mutiny wallet is sailing toward the sunset, I hope that Lightning wallet devs will step up their game to fill the void they left. We need self-custodial wallets that run a node on your phone. We need options. We need the talent.

We probably also need another wallet that mixes Ecash with Lightning to cover everything from very small balances to very large balances. One that let's you start with 100 sat and holds your hands and opens channels for you as you acquire more sats.

I've been building Lightning wallets for years before I started working on Cashu. I know how fucking hard it is. Ecash is child's play compared to Lightning's complexity.

My deepest respect goes to the lunatics who put a fucking Lightning node in the browser and pushed LDK to places where no one else has ever been.

Thank you nostr:nprofile1qqs9hejyd252x8q3kw6980ud4lymx3hlx2x3lgg6p7sz58nyv8m2nvgpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wscxu7t8xc6xwdtkwac8yanpx5e8wmrrd46rwentv3erqdmkx4j8ydmnxv6hyct389nnq7r8vvcxkdrcvdek2er2vachv0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2qg5waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2ujnh08 nostr:nprofile1qqswrlemlh2wgqc4jkds3d8ueqj9a2j3gcm7r48v9tskdd6rxsd7rtcpzfmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ucpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduqjxamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwfhh2mnywfhkx6mzd96xxmmfdejhyuewvdhk6jg4k33 nostr:nprofile1qqsq6myr3rwtqjdcm48u357ccwae8h3a4y96s28y7zwg458ngeyg5vcp2amhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33wq6xkeec0fu826ms09knx6pjxpjhyenpxdekzmt2xqc8ymfjva6rguf4wan827t4xd6xwvrcxd4xwvm8v4ehvmnr0pnrsqgkwaehxw309ahx7um5wgh8vatvwpjk6tnrdaksz9rhwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2ase3kkz0

🫡🏴‍☠️

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Discussion

Nothing against Zeus but they do need a competitor.

I liked Mutiny’s simplicity more than Zeus 😕

Phoenix/Breez?

I'm using Zeus with a self hosted node and the only complain I have is the slow tor connection time. But you do have to get your hands dirty. I just like having Zeus not hiding anything, but it's definitely not beginner friendly.

Phoenix, while being a great wallet/service, market dominance is not healthy.

For instance, they know balances (and when they pay/get paid) of all their user's nodeIds - and once you share an invoice or BOLT12 publicly they can now tie it to your social.

We should not put so much trust into one entity (even though they have been a good actor so far)

Also even if the opted out from the US market, they're based in the EU, which is even worst from a finance regulation pov.

Phoenix is really good and I recommend it to people, however:

- extreme form of "non-custodial centealizarion"

- very very bad privacy

- actually super expensive

I think it's smarter to use Zeus with your own Lightning node on a server at this point.

(I know that's not an alternative to most users of Phoenix, but as a tech savvy person, you don't have to put up with these kinda strong compromises)

„very very bad privacy“

why is that?

Indeed.

NWC + own node and/or a self-hosted AlbyHub are also great alternatives

Anyone who can live with the fact that I can rug you, feel free to use https://bb.mountainlake.io/ or use a cashu wallet with my mint at https://mint.mountainlake.io. I don't charge any fees on top of the lightning network itself. And keep in mind that I will be sailing til mid September and therefore can't offer the same support as in the winter months.

Based

Phoenix's 0.4% outbound payment fee means during low fee environments sending $100 on chain is actually cheaper than sending $100 using phoenix. The UI/UX is really good though.

Yeah, I've spliced out of my channel more than once because it was cheaper to do than to send via Lightning. Feels weird.

>- extreme form of "non-custodial centealizarion"

I feel like this is an inevitable tradeoff for large scale retail solutions.

You need a service provider to shoulder the channel management load and provide the necessary UX abstractions.

I'm also somewhat hopeful ARK can significantly mitigate the costs of self-custodial LN.

I use Zeus+Tailscale on my own node and it's pretty fast

So you trust Tailscale?

Haven't had any issues so far and it just works. Check out Zeus documentation for more info:

https://docs.zeusln.app/for-users/remote-connections/umbrel

Look into setting up Wireguard between your node and the wallet. This might shed more light: https://v2.minibolt.info/bonus-guides/system/wireguard-vpn

I agree, but competition breeds innovation.

Carvalho wants to have a word LOL (Except that he's just busy hot taking on Twitter and conferences while Bitkit has been a shit show)

Joke aside, Mutiny pretty much has been apex in what is currently achievable mobile yet self-custody LN..and it still wasn't enough.

This is a sad day

People acting like blixt isn't the OG 😒

Breez wallet is a great alternative if you don't want to use Phoenix or Zeus

Whats going on with mutiny ? "Sailing towards the sunset" ??

Do you think this a problem with lightning in general that just simply doesn’t have the right incentives or structure to be overcome?

It seems like more people are finding lightning to be a flawed scaling solution.

But then again it seems to work well on Nostr. 🤷‍♂️ I’m honestly wondering because I don’t have the technical knowledge to know.

https://www.coindesk.com/opinion/2024/04/02/are-bitcoin-developers-losing-faith-in-lightning/

Look up Nimiq Pay app on the App Store/Google Play Store. Self-custodial & very user-friendly, plus it includes a bridge from NIM to BTC LN so can be used at all BTC LN acceptance locations. I feel NIM and Nimiq Pay can definitely be part of the solution for small balances.

nostr:note1m7mcf79h0kkkcmy5svawxgpfczzt9glk5t4umxmwwllvdkrdcmssw76pzm

What is happening with Mutiny? I missed something! Mutiny has been one of my faves.🤷‍♂️

Is there any security issue possible if I just keep using Mutiny anyway? It works fine. I've got my seed phrase, etc.

What made nostr:npub1t0nyg64g5vwprva52wlcmt7fkdr07v5dr7s35raq9g0xgc0k4xcsedjgqv fall out of love with Bitcoin and the industry?

Still not super clear what was the largest contributing factor to ending of Mutiny.

Rip indeed 😔

I started with $1000. And got back $6k after 6hrs of investing, it’s totally legit and safe to invest in and thanks to my coach nostr:npub1wj92aqu96a2wmjd47e0w8ptanyxqfh74x9h42x0hmhxegeuy4r9ql3kj56 Dm him now and start earning