Nostr Web Client

So it’s official? You now need to register as a Money Services Business if you want to develop non-custodial wallet software in the US and not go to jail?

Or am I missing nuance?

L0la L33tz 4mo ago 💬 28

Lot's of nuance necessary here, and entirely unclear as neither Samourai Wallet nor Storm were convicted of licensing violations.

What *is* clear is that non-custodial developers should not, under any circumstances, knowingly transmit criminal funds.

Because the licensing requirement is unclear, it is also unclear *how* developers should do this. I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I would either KYC+Chainalysis all the things, or immediately turn off your services for US users so that the DOJ cannot fabricate venue against you.

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzp6xk03p45jjexp8pg9pgp62jalshhep9fl9z0ytt7cle7ul9f2ayqqsxh5z28dmhla9msm3sv99rye6jfx62lhhhq7s4hrs9357ytdqa5lqz8720z

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Discussion

Den Yellek 4mo ago

Might is right.

They have the guns and the cages.

Digital freedom is wonderful but unfortunately we are not digital but physical beings.

Daedalus 4mo ago

KYC world incoming.

El Dorado 4mo ago 💬 1

“KYC + chainanalysis all the things or turn off” sounds like capitulation on financial privacy.

Surely there are ways to keep coinjoins and mixers alive

Daedalus 4mo ago

Yeah they'll survive but only on the darknet with pseudonym developers.

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

I'm sorry to be the one to inform you of this but it is technically impossible to be pseudonymous while being active on the internet when the Five Eyes are after you.

Every darknet market ends up busted one way or another. Also INB4 "but satoshi is pseudonymous". The US Gov likely knows who he is, or at least has some very good guesses as to his identity. If they wanted to prosecute him, they would find him.

This is terrible advice.

kyle-moore 4mo ago

not true at all. the dark/grey web is only growning and becoming a harder problem

kyle-moore 4mo ago

plus writing code vs running a massive drug distribution operation are 2 different things entirely. you're concessions to government are embarrassing for the movement

kyle-moore 4mo ago

are you one of the people using an iPhone on here telling people you can't stay pseudonymous online?

Daedalus 4mo ago 💬 1

Not sure what happened to my reply here, I hope it was an error and was never sent vs me getting reported and deleted from relays but from memory I'll summarize.

Your defeatist opinion here ensures that this reality will perpetuate. If everybody puts up their arms and goes "oh well" we'll see many worse cases than Samourai Wallet or Tornado Cash.

You are also incorrect to say that you cannot be pseudononymous or create software that can't be taken down. Darknet services are incredibly difficult to subpoena having no domain let alone public IP address. They are also very resilient, always popping up to replace each other in case of targeted state attack.

This is reality, not advice.

Consider why you're even in this movement reporting on these cases, this isn't just arbitrary privacy infringements for everybody: its life or incarceration or death for many.

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

Dumb and wrong but glad you are entitled to your opinion

₴Ʉ฿₦Ɇ₮₴₭ł₥₳₴₭ 4mo ago

Protocol level privacy.

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

Additional disclaimer that these are just my two cents and I am just a girl with an internet connection, but for extra context:

much of the prosecution hinged on tornado cash devs discussing that hackers used tornado cash. At the same time, evidence showed that they were *not happy* about this, and tried their best to stop it where they could.

The argument was yet made that: 1) they knew it was happening and 2) their attempts to stop it were insufficient, which to my understanding is the only prerequisite to be charged with 1960B1C 👇

Kruw 4mo ago

Why aren't you instructing Bitcoiners that they should fight back by running their own coinjoin coprdinator nodes? Surrender is terrible advice.

Mynymbox - Privacy friendly hosting solutions 4mo ago

You don't want to have tainted coins. Use Ligutning or Monero instead, or even ZCash.

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

Because I'm not retarded

Mynymbox - Privacy friendly hosting solutions 4mo ago

Kruw 4mo ago

Why do you think winning is "retarded"?

SuiGenerisJohn 4mo ago

nostr:npub1rtlqca8r6auyaw5n5h3l5422dm4sry5dzfee4696fqe8s6qgudks7djtfs retards still winning so hard.

kyle-moore 4mo ago

bitcoin is a cuck movement now. keep it for savings but use monero

Mynymbox - Privacy friendly hosting solutions 4mo ago

A good advice for all devs. Privacy devs should leave the US and do not cross the US boarder anymore. Not even a dev with non us citizenship should do that. Cases like Roman Sterlinglov showed it how dangerous it is.

As long as the law in US is soooo unlcear stay away.

For few month we were thinking about to move our companie from Nevis to US. We are happy that we didn't do it. We also do not offer any services in the US. We also try to avoid US domain registrars.

El Rojo Jesus 4mo ago

There are no laws, only Power.

The Bulgarian Pork Whistle 4mo ago

Keep writing ✍️ the good fight 🗡️

Aaron van Wirdum 4mo ago

Wait I thought Storm *was* convicted of licensing violations? What am I not understanding?

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

Good question. The 1960 statute which criminalizes unlicensed money transmitting has three parts. The first is for not having a state license, the second is for not having a federal license, but the third - which storm and SW ended up guilty of - actually doesnt have anything to do with licensing; it criminalizes the known transmission of criminal proceeds and was added later (after the patriot act).

This makes sense for when, for example, a licensed business transmits criminal proceeds. They wont be charged with a licensing violation bc they *have* a license, but can still be charged with a 1960 violation under that third part.

For Storm and SW the government basically said: we say you are *transmitting* money, but we’re not going to pursue the federal or state licensing violation, we’ll only pursue the transmitting criminal proceeds part.

Initially they were charged with the federal licensing violation as well, but that was dropped after the blanche memo.

Aaron van Wirdum 4mo ago

Thanks for clarifying!

SatsAndSports 4mo ago

If they had just written the software, i.e. just posted it on GitHub, and they had not *run* the software, they would be ok, right?

ede3d957... 4mo ago

.... Monero

Still waiting for your deep dive on continuous state attacks for 8 years and counting.

L0la L33tz 4mo ago

Do you want to tell that to the monero dev who had his house swatted last year or

ede3d957... 4mo ago

No, I don't know whom you are talking about.

I am talking about the need to make the ongoing illegal state attacks public. People have the right to defend themselves.

Monero's anonymous dev culture is far from being perfect but it's much better than fully captured Bitcoin Core.