#asknostr
Is there any way to find out whether my account has been somehow blacklisted on nostr and who acted to do that?
Discussion
Is that actually something that can be done to someone on here?
you can be blacklisted by a relay, or you can be blacklisted by an individual on their client
if you get blackisted by a relay, use a different one.
If you get blavklisted by an individual, they will no longer see your notes
not an expert, maybe there is more
Thanks!
That was clear, but is there a way to find out which relays have blacklisted your account?
If you post a note to a relay, and they don't accept it, they have likely blacklisted you
I don't know if there are tools out there to test it but since it's an open protocol it should be easy to check this
nostrudel and coracle both have publish logs that show you if a relay is blocking you
Use Jumble.social, go to that relay's feed, post a note to it and see if it shows up.
Bear in mind, some relays may block by default and only allow certain whitelisted npubs to post to them. Web-of-trust relays or paid relays, for instance.
Yes, if the nontechnical user even could figure out how to post to a particular relay's feed, seems it would only check that relay.🤔
Seems like a useful feature to build into clients.
I think you can check which relays received your notes through a tool called NADAR.
nostr:note13tlq4wl8g3ts98xu799g9z8cn70s0rlye4xa65x6nv9rtghgt6vskfpxdg
Yes, this seems promising!
Checking the OP nevent of this, it's only found on 3.6% of 1243 it checked.
How can it be so few?
I've heard there are clients that rug you if you are not a person of too much interest. Fair enough. After all, they're the ones bearing the cost of the application 🤷. But, obviously, I could choose to hire a paid relay or spin my own personal relay (with the help of guys like nostr:npub10npj3gydmv40m70ehemmal6vsdyfl7tewgvz043g54p0x23y0s8qzztl5h ) if I need it. The strength is in variety
I nadared another note sent 4 hours ago.
Only 4.7% of 1243 relays have it.
Surely, nostr propagation is not that slow.
That suggests that there is already some form of shadow banning in effect.
Perhaps, there's already some common "antispam" blacklist widely in use?🤔
Then, even running own "sovereign"😄 relay would not overcome that; all that someone, such as a gangsterment, needs to do to " regulate" nostr to save us from "disinformation" and "fake news", is to mandate all commercial relays, such as @primal.net , use that blacklist and add all undesirable or " unverified" relays to it.
Would be just as shadow banned as on twatter, with 95% or more nostr users not seeing your notes at all.🤔
To get off the blacklist would have to KYC, pay for a blue check, et cetera...🙁
There's an elaborate model (called the outbox model, that I don't understand btw) to help solve that problem. This mechanism makes relays connect to each other in a way I don't know yet 😅.
The main problem of nostr (including this general "ghosting" situation) is that it's largely neglected in technological terms because there almost no one programming the software seriously and reliably. Most projects today are just "vibe-coding", "hack-around" horrors.
The good thing is that this is a protocol. There can exist people with integrity at any point in time. If they
come together to make a reliable system of apps and infrastructure, they will have a huge impact in everything else nostr-related. It's sort of a critical mass that will then incentivize others to work better
that's #gitcitadel :)
all the people in the team are the most grumpy kitties in all of nostr dev land, mostly hated, even though some of the people have contributed greatly to the whole thing actually working
the ones you are always hearing about their newest thing are narcissist trash who are not interested in actually making this work, just being seen
the tl;dr of what outbox is, is simply that users advertise their relays and mark some of them as inboxes and other users who make replies or send DMs the clients are supposed to send them to those relays to be stored
this means that users can use any relays they want rather than be confined to needing to use a small popular set that a lot of people use
That's rather a traditional problem in FOSS development.
Every dev wants to be the king of his own fiefdom - able to do anything with his code on a whim - rather than collaborate with other similarly large egos.
As an outsider, what seems necessary is a Nostr Core reference implementation project arrangement , managed by an IT project manager.
A particular client could also do this, but it would be more difficult, unless that client is Primal, in which case it would be trivial. However, you would only be blacklisted for users of that client. Anyone who uses other clients would still see your notes.
correct. would be a very overt way to do it, if the client is opensource
Yea I know about those, but this question seemed to be alluding to more than that
That's not a thing.
I suspect that there's more shadow banning going on here than there ever was on twatter, and for the same malicious , censorship purposes.🤔
you can always switch relay, or better yet, run your own
Of course. We already use citrine with my associates, but citrine also only connects to a certain limited number of relays,and I don't see a way to check whether any of those blacklisted it.
I guess something to suggest to Citrine developers.
what i mean is a relay tjat is publicly accessible by others, where they can pull your notes. then you can be sure the you don't get shadowbanned by the relay
https://github.com/bitvora/haven
for example
Thanks! That's only practical for developers and technical people.
Most users here would not be able to do that - compile from source, run a relay on their own computer, connect to it from their mobile, et cetera.
It seems then, for nontechnical users, the answer to my original question is no.🤔
I don't know what you're expecting exactly...
Being sovereign means you do it yourself, and not deferred to others. It is the only way to ensure censorship resistance.
If you're not willing to learn how to use these tools, then you will rely on someone else that is running them for you, and they can basically do what they want, there is no protection against that. in that case the best you can do is find a friend that you trust, that will run it for you. You can also spread your notes among many relays, to ensure no single choking point.
But yeah, there are no guarantees for anything in life.
to the original question, there might be a tool that can check that, it would easily be possible. But unsure if it has been developed yet. If you would like to see a tool like that, you could try to post a bounty to nostr, that will incentivise devs to build it
Indeed!
I'm expecting nostr promoters not to hype it as uncensorable, when there's really no way to assure that, without becoming an IT geek to create and maintain own nostr access infrastructure "yourself" personally.
As we see even in this thread, not everyone knows that, or has the how to knowledge.
It's the same issue as with early Bitcoin promoters hyping it as "anonymous".😄
Yeah it never is as straight forward as it's advertised 😁😁
I think having the option to post to multiple relays, and using paid relays to ensure aligned incentives is probably good enough for most, and doesn't required extra knowledge
But yeah, if you want the most certainty and sovereignty, there ia no way around doing it yourself unfortunately
Then stop supporting liars and make it so more of the advertising comes from people like me
I don't lie when I advertise nostr, I just say stuff like "nostr has never banned a user" which is exactly as straightforward as I say
Correct, the answer to your original question is no
This does nothing
Without constant testing, it's just trusting your relay to operate correctly based on nothing
With constant testing, it's just constantly testing your own relay instead of other people's relays and apps
It doesn't tell you which clients are blocking you, which relays are selective about who they'll show your notes to, etc
Why are people in this thread acting like running your own relay is a way to pinpoint shadowbans on nostr?
Running your own relay wouldn't help with people using clients that censor npubs
Wouldn't really help much with other clients either tbh
I've been too lazy to save all the examples of people other than me talking about me being shadowbanned, but here's 3 example nevents off the top of my head
*talking about shadowbanning on nostr (one of them isn't about me)
No, there's not
These are the types of tools nostr devs avoid building because it's hard and most of them are grifters
We will need p2p data integrity verification over Tor, built into nostr apps, to fix this ultimately