Nostr Web Client

I don’t have the skills to do a proper analysis on Core v. Knots. The arguments on both side are compelling but the Knots side feels more genuine and Core comes off as a bit elitist. Doesn’t mean Core is wrong (necessarily), could just mean Knots is fighting a better forward guard.

Is anyone keeping a score card of devs and thought leaders positions on this? Some people I really respect in the space and look to for guidance are nostr:nprofile1qqsg86qcm7lve6jkkr64z4mt8lfe57jsu8vpty6r2qpk37sgtnxevjcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejqz9thwden5te0dehhxarjv4kxjar9wvhx7un89jln3c nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te009skyafwd4jj7y78xzn nostr:nprofile1qqsvnvvlln2ru6jlyweayugxecv7ftfdlzd6zqca63sh7x6ercggjegpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9e3h2unjv4h8gtnx095ssvg6v4 nostr:nprofile1qqsyx708d0a8d2qt3ku75avjz8vshvlx0v3q97ygpnz0tllzqegxrtgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcyntgnq nostr:nprofile1qqsvf646uxlreajhhsv9tms9u6w7nuzeedaqty38z69cpwyhv89ufcqprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqyf8wumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn58f5nv nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqnz0fd0 nostr:nprofile1qqsywt6ypu57lxtwj2scdwxnyrl3sry9typcstje65x7rw9a2e5nq8spz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqzrthwden5te0dehhxtnvdakq77p088 nostr:nprofile1qqsw3znfr6vdnxrujezjrhlkqqjlvpcqx79ys7gcph9mkjjsy7zsgygpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qz9rhwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjmc3ncrk5

ODELL 3mo ago 💬 19

i do not feel comfortable telling people to run knots until it has better review and release processes in place

if you do not want to relay larger op return transactions then run core v29 (the most recent version of core) and do not update to v30 when it is released

alternatively you can run v30 with a modified config file

i think luke, mechanic, and most core contributors mean well and care about bitcoin

long term i want to see more well reviewed bitcoin implementations exist, more choices for node operators is strictly better, this is one of the reasons i have donated my time to build out opensats

i think this ‘debate’ has mostly devolved into social attacks and is mostly unproductive

i do not think it matters much for the global bitcoin network which client you run, in this specific situation

i have said much on this topic in the past, use the search feature if you are curious

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Discussion

roscoclyde 3mo ago

I’ve been curious your opinion on the matter. Thank you. 🤝

Eric FJ 🪬⚡️ 3mo ago 💬 1

This is lucid

DagzTagz 3mo ago

Indeed!

DagzTagz 3mo ago

Well said

nostr:nevent1qqsv0aphpzlcrvk9xsccem4770ssvw3uqqryd4a8dmgu8t5jl5aldfspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhg2ruypf

bitcoinpoorguy 比特幣傢伙 🇭🇰 3mo ago

Fair enough 🫡

scrolls of ancient wisdom 3mo ago

This is opinion is natural to slightly biased to core. The reason why people are running knots even without the best review is because we feel offended and betrayed.

Joseph Hurtado - Founder Granata Consulting 3mo ago 💬 2

Who reviews core?

Knots is a minor fork of Core.

Trazyn 3mo ago

> Knots is a minor fork of Core.

How do you know, have you reviewed it ?

R 3mo ago 💬 1

Most of the competent bitcoin software engineers review Core in a formal rough consensus review process (look it up). How do you know knots is a minor fork and isn’t introducing a security flaw? Is that based on your ability to review code? If other bitcoin software engineers thought took the time to review knots and decided it had a flaw, how would they stop Luke from publishing an update he wants published?

Joseph Hurtado - Founder Granata Consulting 3mo ago 💬 1

Both are open source.

Any developer can review Knots.

BTW yes I could review Knots code. I am a developer too.

R 3mo ago

The original point from Odell was about the review release PROCESS. Do you participate in the review release process for knots or are you just another “I could review it if I wanted to”. If you do, great, please explain the process to us and how you would prevent Luke from publishing something he thinks is good but the other knots developers thinks is a security risk.

dagwood 3mo ago

Cooler heads prevail.

Best "NOT TWITTER" explanation I have seen.

SatsAndSports 3mo ago 💬 1

The code for the consensus rules should be in a separate library, and that library should be used by all implementations

I'm usually all for having a variety of open implementations, but we need to avoid an y chance of a hard fork that is accidentally introduced via an accidental change in consensus code. This happened in March 2013

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152030.0

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-network-shaken-by-blockchain-fork-1363144448

ODELL 3mo ago

this is being worked on

easier said than done

Winston 3mo ago

Well said. The voice of reason.

marksn 3mo ago

a 💯 . right now it’s a distraction imho

Affinity**For*Disobedience 3mo ago

nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqnz0fd0 could you be more specific regarding what a "better review and release process" looks like? Or at least what it definitely doesn't look like. How many reviewers would make you feel more comfortable, what is the best release process you've seen in another project etc.

Technician 3mo ago

What review and release process would you consider sufficient to recommend Knots or any other implementation?

Cobweb 3mo ago

This only works in the short term. Eventually you will need the security patches for Core 30, 31, 32, 33... They're going to force this eventually. Staying on v29 is a short term solution.

We I do agree we need Knots to grow in its governance to be a true competitor to Core.

Skanderbeg 3mo ago

Or just update to v30 and change the datacarrier limit. Keeps OP_RETURN limits as is.

Skanderbeg 3mo ago

If that's something you are concerned about, which is another conversation.

BitcoinSandy 3mo ago

Wen taproot ? Or am i late ? That’s about where I am 😂

pedro 3mo ago 💬 1

you're talking about long term, but do you think core 30 may cause a short/mid term problem though? we have a precedent with what happened on bsv, when they raised op return to 100kb and i don't understand yet why this huge risk is being taken so lightly. "just don't update your node" won't be helpful, when other people do update and stuff ends up on a block

spyhunter 3mo ago

I have this exact thought bouncing around in my brain, as such the just don't update line makes no sense to me. not to be a doomer but i don't see how this change doesn't destroy the p2p layer of bitcoin.

Force2B 3mo ago

Good call

Branca 3mo ago

All it takes is one miner not using OP_RETURN filters for all nodes, including yours, to store illicit material. This is the only argument they should refute or substantiate much better. At this point, and given what's happening, I think influential people are definitely compromised.