Yes. This is the natural cycle of monitization

Exactly

You don’t think cap gains and the lack of infrastructure has anything to do with it?

This. This is spot on. And it’s why “spend and replace” was what the cool kids did in 2013.

The time to spend bitcoin will come…when your paycheck replenishes what you spent. But by then it’ll just be called don’t spend more than you have :)

The important thing is net change: if bitcoin inflows are higher than outlflows, you're good.

yes no worries

eventually more people will spend it

because they have no choice

Read the "boring gray metal" Bitcoin talk post.

OP covers this well from like 2010. Market needs a large enough pool of reference prices whereby people demand the goods priced in sats.

The entire history of economics relies on reference prices, one system referencing the prior system - building on itself and leveraging exploits in the old system to build the new.

Did you just watch my presentation at nostr:nprofile1qqsqhnducqt545lyw4x9t3x3p267wh6zul830xjm47p42hs42jg76rgpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0rk0w50 😂

Agreed. What do you think about people saying that capital gains tax prevents use of btc as a MoE? I think it’s BS, but curious what others think about that. Especially those I assume are transacting in btc regularly.

The shittier money always gets spent first.

Those of us who are already all-in on Bitcoin spend bitcoin because we no longer hold any shittier money.

nostr:nevent1qqsvcnrgpmpk4ylv3eezhx2d5ux584lxnkg26fvm07yzdernh44tcespz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg8g3f53axxenp7fv3fpmlmqqf0kquqr0zjg0yvqmjamffgz0pgyzypsgqqqqqqsjwectd

I do both. Who cares

Natural incentives is spot on

You're analysis contains some truth but you don't mention another natural incentive that arises from the permissionless nature of bitcoin.

You only need to get burnt a couple of times till you realize that sending payments to whoever, whenever with 100% control and better privacy IS in an increasing number of cases a big factor as to what money we use.

You left out important benefits of bitcoin intimately tied to situations related to medium of exchange when you were talking about "why people don't spend bitcoin".

So ultimately Gresham's law contains some truth but is a simplification and is therefore false. How else do you justify real people spending bitcoin today?

Sov vs digital cash is a high time preference argument and last I checked you can do both.

Tipping point will be when producers of very value stuff refuse any money but bitcoin.

To sum up everything: the money is broken and bitcoin will win.

Agreed.

Yes, but we need to put more pressure on governments in regards to the sale of bitcoin being a taxable event.

There are many countries in the world where this is the law and if newcomers to Bitcoin have all purchased via KYC then they are not going to use it as a currency and are forced to hold it as a store of value.

I trust you are using "bitcoin" as general for crypto as you can own many types of crypto without counter-party risk. Artificially short blocks are NOT natural incentives IMHO or due to them unless the goal was to make it unusable as digital cash replacement.

Nor is a 100% trackable "digital cash" at all a boon. It would make a pretty awesome base for a CBDC though once governments gained control of block validation.

Yeah to be added that capital gain taxes on bitcoin play a role here

The fact u are theoretically taxed when u spend it is what makes “new gresham law” ; original gresham law is due to authoritarian rate imposed on different money not reflecting what people think it should be

There is not that in bitcoin now. But the fact that bitcoiners obviously think (by nature) it should be worth much more AND that spending it is taxable makes for new gresham law. Same effect

go sue some clockmakers you statist cunt

According to Gresham's law, paper Bitcoins would be used as digital cash if they were legal tender.

Amen. People need to understand there is a natural sequence of things. It needs to unfold, but it will

Never heard it explained like this before, very nice and thank you

Going to build nuri.com into a simple and secure Bitcoin and Lightning wallet with MPC and Hardware Wallet Security! Posting some slides soon, feedback are welcome!

Very true. It’s still so early. When most stores are accepting bitcoin, and when employers offer to pay in bitcoin, people will start spending bitcoin.

Yes.

So true, from experience.

My biggest reason to use it less as digital cash is the obnoxious tax treatment. Sure I'll send zaps especially because my lightning funds aren't coming out of the Bitcoin I bought anyway (thanks Ember Fund), but the idea of tabulating every small purchase on my tax returns is insane. We need sane de-minimis rules on purchase sizing just like foreign currencies get to get rid of this nonsense. Speaking for American laws anyway.

We'll see if this administration brings in a better situation in that regard.

And beyond that, yes, I'm going to get rid of my dollars before my bitcoin as long as people are willing to take that trash as if it's actually money. Except for when I've got people who I'm looking to otherwise give a nice gesture to in addition to buy things from.

This will change and is changing as banks and payment service providers are aggressively monitoring all transactions with consequences for customers like frozen bank accounts until you've proven yourself not guilty.

Also a CBDC a year after introduction will probably misuse their absolute control. This will really push people in the direction of using lightning, cashu, fedimint and p2p bitcoin transactions.

What if with bitcoin, the dicotomy "store of value vs cash" becomes obsolete?

This is a helpful take on current SoV and MoE. I’m conflicted, and like many at some point, instead of purely Hodling I feel compelled to use Bitcoin. So I start by buying Bitcoin products like nostr:npub12ctjk5lhxp6sks8x83gpk9sx3hvk5fz70uz4ze6uplkfs9lwjmsq2rc5ky offers with Bitcoin. I seek out guidance from nostr:npub1lrj3lsskez59qu68v5fpnur7ythe7s5e4qcelclha6t6r9q5pqgsl2mzx2 and pay a nostr:npub1cwneqlnjgs3rdtk97c2ffy2df9dm5zycgj3dsg8c3z00hchxjmfqtvraju invoice with bitcoin for their service. I enjoy these experiences, it feels good to circulate value for the value others provide. Is this irresponsible on my part? Should I continue to purely stack and make purchases with usd credit paid for over time while hopefully bitcoin’s NGU? I love sending zaps to those who provide value here, should I continue to keep my value only within this circular bitcoin economy system for now? Or, do I go all in and continue to support Bitcoin only businesses like nostr:npub1sweetl0gskmka0n5qevt7v2wj9q56ntwkmaeywffw4ftaucmcakquhns6h and their fermented honey and hot sauce using my sats? Is it worth setting up Bitcoin payments so zealots can purchase Banshee Bikes direct? So many mixed signals out there on this topic, and occasionally I’m feeling way to protective of my 21 sats than I think I currently should as I want to provide value to those using this protocol so it’ll continue to improve. Appreciate any feedback, it’s a pretty confusing time for someone trying to live on a bitcoin standard.

It's less that there's no counter party risk and more that it's widely distributed counter party risk, as with gold. That its value grows is relative to how widely distributed that risk gets -- the more users the network has, the more valuable and low risk it becomes.