Why doesn't America have vocational training or a "technical high school" programs?
A strong focus on academics seems like it would become an occupational disadvantage especially for young men.
Discussion
They exist, they’re just rare. I took a class on basic computer hardware in high school and I remember an auto shop class was available, I think a few other things were part of that program too (maybe training to be a barber?)
Because the government funded higher education program is too lucrative to allow it.
Is that so? 🤔
Was the plan to take in immigrants to do the hard labour work the plan all along?
I won’t pretend know why, I just look at the incentives.
- Kids are told they must go to university
- University prices continue to climb
- Massive loans are given to kids
- The government backstops loans
You’re going against the culture if you forego university for the trades.
We have vocational training but all the parents want their kids to be lawyers or doctors or bankers. So here we are.
Yea, I guess there's also that.
Going to a vocational school should also be backed up with a business degree so you can start your own company. If not you will just toil for someone else. But there are always the trade unions.
Or dummies like me that decided to learn the hard way with a business.
Working for yourself is not easy. You always take the work home. Its a 24hr gig.
There are still some programs, but they are the exception and not the norm.
They faded out for a number of reasons, but primarily that students were looking to go on to college/University instead of learning a trade and entering the work force after graduation.
Add to that an increasingly litigious legal climate and risk adverse administrations, and the funding dried up predictably.
I was fortunate to have a good VoTech nearby in the that helped me into a medical electronics company immediately after graduation.
(I just looked it up and it's still operational)
The system is definitely broken. The vocational classes in our local school are blow-off classes, mainly because the teachers aren't engaged or aren't qualified to teach the class but were emergency certified because there was no one else. We only recently discovered this because of an exchange student staying with my sister telling us about what all goes on.
We've always talked about our kid having some kind of skill and he's just not going to be encouraged to do that in the public school system. We're jumping on the home school train soon. There are so many opportunities with the freedom of learning all the things instead of what's on the yearly test.
I remember a coworker I had when I worked in California said they had wood shop and auto shop but none of the teachers or trainers really took it seriously for high schoolers to want to be a carpenter or mechanic. They took it because it was easy and chill.
Yep. Easy A classes to boost your grade point average. I took a floral design class and it was a ton of fun, the teacher was awesome and it made a huge difference.
Also good luck on the little one's home schooling. I think it's the best option at the moment.. but I realise it's also not for everyone.
Guilds. We must get back to guilds.
Here in Brazil there are specific formations for industrial and commercial fields during and soon after highschool.
But guilds shall be the way to go.
Too logical.
We do. Well where I grew up we did and still do. VoTech is a common program (or school) in high schools where I grew up. It's also very unionized so it's unlikely you won't run into a trade worker. I was born from a long line of bakers. Baking can't be what is used to be, I'm the first to go to college and break the cycle. I was the first in the family. Now that I mention it, a whole side of my family graduated a very strict and very good trade school. They're basically guaranteed jobs because the network is so large of graduates from the school in good positions.
So it does exist in small pockets. I imagine if people who live in mining towns for example, there would be programs, apprenticeships to continue the line of capable trade workers. Why does it seem like it's become a long and forgotten path.
Probably yeah. I haven't looked into it too much because everyone I know talked about some tech program at their school. People I know from many other states. Around where I grew up is a lot of industry. Used to be bigger, but it's still here. Lots of big refineries. Mostly oil and natural gas processing, among other things. Big cities always keep the suburbanites busy building and repairing things for the city dwellers.
We still have them but they are used to house troubled kids who are too problematic for normie high school instead of kids who are just actually interested in tradecraft who are being funnelled into higher education instead to their great detriment. My sister was a victim of the derangement and I'll never forget it.
I see. Different use cases. I probably would have ended up in one if I lived there. 😅
I've just heard talk of it as a non existent or an unserious vocational training in America. Like no one wants to be a carpenter anymore or a metal worker. As if that's a kind of job for immigrants.
I don't know anyone that feels that way, but I know lots of people, as children, that were encouraged to _not_ seek out that kind of profession because they should do something "better." In otherwords, if you seem capable of being an accountant you _shouldn't_ be a carpenter. That's the propaganda that public education teaches. Most people I know have enormous respect for tradesmen but were never given a proper opportunity to consider it for themselves so they frequently become family businesses passed on generation to generation, a number of which have been my clients.
We do. But they fell out of style in the 90-2000s. They're starting to make a come back now
More specifically, skilled trades particularly carpentry, electrical and plumbing. They coordinate with the local unions and send kids to the apprentice schools during the days
A lot of automotive programs sponsored by Ford. At least here in Detroit. And now there are a BUNCH of robotics and millwright programs now, also sponsored by the Big 3, Seimens, Eaton, etc.
They're looking to bring in young talent
All for high school credit 🌞
This is great. I would think that's how companies in industrial cities would get continuous workforce in skilled training. Private entity can make that happen, certainly not from the public domain.
We do, I went to one for nursing. College is shoved down your throat in America and you’re looked down as less than and “uneducated” if you don’t go 🙄
That's great!
It's a shame it has become that way.
My Parents when I was young: "If you don't got to college you will never get a good job."
My friend who drives a delivery truck: "I just started and I'm already making $250,000 / yr"
Dang !
I understand if you respond TLDR
We do. The vocational technical high schools are governed by each state with significant differences from state to state.
We also have a post secondary market for technical/trade training. Again, this is regionalized and the markets are different depending on geography.
A lot of the post secondary market was gutted by partisan DOE hacks and liberal state and federal administrations.
Over the past two decades we have seen a precipitous drop in this type of training due to policies that favor traditional four year colleges. Literally hundreds, if not thousands of post secondary trade schools have closed their doors due to capricious stiff regulation.
For example, Obama and Biden admins and like liberal states have forced regulation on these schools that they don't on traditional colleges. Gainful Employmnet rules force schools maintain employment rates and cost controls based on median salary. These rules are waved for traditional colleges. If the cost outweighs the benefit or you don't place a certain percent of your graduates, you can lose funding or get closed down, but if you major lesbian basket weaving theory from Harvard, you are elevated, even though you are not employable, and there is no accountability for Harvard.
To put it in perspective, these schools are self funded through tuition, not endowments, international student funding, or state grants that prop up the institution. These schools are a fraction of the cost of traditional schools and provide a valuable service to the non traditional student.
I think most people see the value in vocational education, but policy makers dislike these schools because they are usually for profit institutions. Profit is bad. Surplus (non profit) is good. Essentially schools are regulated by tax status. The attack on these schools have been relentless for a while. Maybe this will change.
I do know that the median age of plumbers is like 55 and there are not a lot of plumbing schools.
Oh no, I read the whole thing and I appreciate the response. 😄
There just seems to be this idea or talk that it no longer exists in America. As it turns out according to response that it does albeit regional and even political.
I'm learning.
Thanks so much for the generous amount of sats. If you are ever in New England, I'll give you a tour of one of our schools at:
We do teach Automotive Technology as well.