Blue Sky grew through fomo invite codes being asked for on Twitter. A pull strategy.
What’s nostr’s pull?
Discussion
Zaps and microapps
Zaps! And the fact that you are far less likely to be cancelled here than the “vibe app”. So freedom I guess..
Those are benefits but they don’t pull people in
I guess that’s True for most people , zaps can be a pull though, getting paid for your notes and stuff.
The freedom part was actually a pull for me. Maybe we can reframe it to censorship resistance unlike twitter. That’s what pulled me In at least.
Words easiest content monetization is the pull.
From creating an account to earning on posts in under 30min with no ID submission needed.
Depends on the person I guess. One of the biggest things that drew me in was a chronological feed that wasn’t messed with. I felt like I was missing less.
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There was an account around here zapping 21 sats to new users, maybe a larger scale version of that would be effective for onboarding, and set new users up with some zapping pocket change? Someone could set up a relay that requires invites, like bluesky, if they so desired, to help create some FOMO. (although seems like an annoying way to get new users, that would just cause arguments)
New users ok but they are already here. How do we get someone who isn’t here?
We need more musicians and artists from twitter
Some of them are into web3 stuff but have no idea about #nostr
Wavelake is growing well, but I don't know if they have added lightning login yet....
or
I was hoping zapstr would step in there but it’s already veering off course with podcasts imo.
Do you think wavelake is not good or what do you think?
I dunno i haven’t used it. I conceptualized and designed zapstr so I’m very biased 😂
me too lol
Zapstr says nothing to me but I just look at everything and then judge, I like wavelake very well but the login is catastrophic, but is supposed to be on their roadmap.
Zapstr design and live version are not the same. Pablo shifted gears into highlight. We haven’t even had any time to sync up on it. I think zapstr has huge potential if I can guide it.
Let’s check it out
Ironic because that’s the thing that’s probably repulsing some.
You are probably right. The world’s most scarce digital commodity is just sooo repulsive. 🙄 And if you add another decentralized, permissionless network to the mix, well, people just can't handle it. It's just too much decentralization, accessibility, and the absence of scamming venture capitalists, egomaniac CEOs, and NOSTR shitcoin tokens. I mean, what are we even doing here? 😂
real value
How?
a wildly superior offering:
The free flow of information
- both scarce (sats)
- and non-scare (mkt of ideas)
The ability to traverse an increasing amount of products and services without being silo’d
and with one simple login protocol
No KYC and predatory surveillance needed.
Superior programability, discoverability and optionality (over time this improves exponentially due to the stacking of network effects on top of network effects
Compare these characteristics to driving short term fomo on a dying product and the two do not compare over time.
All benefits but not pull mechanisms. Some may not care for any of those benefits.
Mmmm, perhaps
I think they’re all kind of pull mechanisms. Just not high time pref, short term ones. They are slower and more subtle but bring users 100% imo
Each of these characteristics will over time provide a better and better offering and bring people here. But perhaps you’re right - not in a bulk onboarding.
Also. I think there a huge difference to users caring theoretically and demonstrating they ‘care’ through their actions. They wont come for them as an idea. But they will come for them as an experience
Ok so the pull is word of mouth, you think?
Mmm. Good question..
Do you consider that bluesky method “word of mouth” ?
No. More like a growth hack.
Hrmm
Ok. So if bitcoins “pull” is everything loosing value relative to in a deranging and in some instances collapsing society, and this is due to fomo - ie: ngu
Then maybe nostr’s is not being able to find life altering savong/information in a time of crisis when all others decide that information is out of bounds?
What do you see the pull as for nostr ? Is there one? Can there be the same as what we have had with platforms, with protocols? And how does the distributed nature change this ability ?
I used both.
twitter normies love bluesky.
bitcoiners hate it.
on average.
people like what they like/need.
Most bluesky users are just sick of Elons twitter 😂
I haven't been on Twitter in years. I got suspended many years ago for objecting to all the pedophilic grooming, abusing of women and hating on woman. Mostly supported and promoted by Faggot's like LGBTQ+.
This was during the early days of the so-called government censorship industrial complex. Detailed in the Twitter files and Congressional hearings.
Apparently they began conspiring together early. In preparation for the plandemic, and subsequent poisoning of you all. With highly toxic experimental chemotherapy drugs only appropriate for terminally ill cancer patients. If that.
Wisely, few of you actually wanted to take those for-profit poisons. But you were forced to take them with mandates from your governments, employers, schools etc. In league and combination with the censorship industrial complex.
Lastly, tens of thousands of you, if not millions were seriously injured or killed by these so-called vaccines. So-called vaccines that are still killing you today, years later. Excess deaths are through the roof. As are cancers and sudden death. In young and old alike.
So there you have it..🤡🤑 GMO🦠🦟💊💩💉☣️☠️🥀⚰️💀😐👏👍😆😂🤣😁
P.S. spread the word before you drop dead too..🤡🤑💉☠️💀🤔😐
Well, I’m thinking of ways we can spread nostr content out to pull people in. I think micro apps and specific use cases will do that well if they are optimized for discovery outside the platform.
People with existing audiences are also good, but you can’t really force them to join - they’ll have to discover on their own.
Nostrategy, just a place that feels right to reality enjoyers
the lack of pull
Explain
In that interest in nostr is geninue. Invites were a closed beta system captured by external influence. I think creating value and informative resources about the "product" is okay (considered a pull tactic). I believe they should either be high-level, catering to a broad audience (different languages), or highly individualized to avoid the distasteful targeting that occurs when a "product" tries to pull a specific group (resulting in the lowest common denominator of that group). This mistake is what led to Bluesky's captured mess. However, they are doing quite well, considering the initial plan was to be an independent custodian with Twitter as the public-facing client, which they now are trying to be both reference and a product.
Bluesky doesn't really exist yet, and its growth won't come from the same place if they successfully deliver on any of their open decentralized goals. There would be nothing to capture in that scenario. But their current “growth” doesn’t even allow Jimmy Fallon two steps into the room, and the same issue applies to most English-speaking individuals.
you want genuine early adopters for a handful of YEARS before hype beast come in. Nothing that has hype that early on has stuck in tech.
So word of mouth basically
yes and the production of informative resources that really try to reach the general audience so one could onboard themselves.
Currently it seems like the less technical the documentation the sooner you will run into bitcoin… the white papery like stuff doesn’t mention it in the intro or conclusion and it’s usually an aside in the last section.
https://github.com/rajarshimaitra/rust-nostr/blob/main/VISION.md
I’ve only read crappy computer generated translations of the nostrchan book, but it seems to pace itself quite respectably… now a general western audience probably couldn’t wrap their minds around waifu walking them through what nostr is, but the pacing and pre-request needed seems right.
I don’t think tutorials = bad ux… but many do. Not sure the tutorials need to be apart of the ux. It’s hard line to walk balancing being generally about nostr, but also showing examples with clients that will be outdated with the rapid development. I submitted an update to the damus read me on git, but that update two weeks later was already incorrect again. I think it wasn’t accepted because tutorials = bad ux.
I think on the individual level something like this is needed… this way I can slip into someone’s DM’s and they can get to it at their own pace, instead of real time word of mouth.
nostr:note10d43h5m5tlagaqqwu7csezzdmtk4z365qjnthecrkk4l5p3acjys6kxm3h
This is a very interesting concept
I have follower on legacy media I don’t really know but they do follow back… i want to write a custom paragraph of a pitch, and have that come true and come first with little effort and on their own time, then let them explore nostr from there.
This seems more scalable than the real-time word of mouth like you mentioned.
Onboarding is a hassle but I feel like retention is even bigger problem as Nostr still has a very narrow domain of discussion topics (or if it's wider, then those are not easily discoverable).
nostr does seem to have a too small range of topics. Searching on hashtags can help you find more diverse conversations.
While I do a lot of technical work and have much interest in #bitcoin there is much more that I'm interested in. I'm posting more on other topics and tagging them so we can expand the range of the conversation on nostr. #start9 servers, #beginnergardening, #houstontexans, #skiing and #freetrade are just some of the other areas where I'd love to see more nostr discussions.
I've accepted the challenge from #[4] for his #grownostr initiative. Check it out at: https://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/grow-nostr
outside real-time events, or fan tags for certain creators (for them to receive user generated content for a specific purpose), it’s been over a decade since hashtags have been useful for discovery. They are great if you want some cheap engagement, but for that reason they also are kinda cringe, a sign of the marketing communications class of 2015 who jumps from client to client building their following, creating a mess of unengaged followers that is then demoted in the algorithm and switching positions to to create that mess again for their next victim.
I'm happy if you have other suggestions besides hashtags for discovery. Please tell me more about your thoughts here.
I confess to being new to nostr - hashtags seemed somewhat helpful to me so far, but I know things change quickly here...
This doesn’t encourage people to tag their content in a useful way at all… in fact it’s the exact opposite. This works for plebchain as someone see it and learns about the topic to participate. Participating in grownostr doesn’t grow the number of people attempting to tag content with appropriate tags, it might grow a following from step 3 & 4 but the commonality is that you both want followers, not a shared interest in the tag or an appreciation of the content found in the appropriate tag. 
Thanks for the reply. I think you are right that this initiative could be misused, and maybe incentives are not aligned to the best. If someone does this solely to increase followers and hashtags inaccurately it isn't going to help.
The context of this initiative (what I got from listening to the podcast) was asking people to post on non-bitcoin topics and hashtag those posts with #grownostr and whatever hashtag is appropriate for the post. The idea being that it would be a way to find new followers and have folks follow you for non-bitcoin topics where you do share an interest in the tag and appreciate the content. I've seen a number of grownostr posts / tags that I do not have interest in and don't follow.
Not trying to argue with you - genuinely interested in improving things and looking for alternate ways to make nostr better... I appreciate your engagement here.
* Make two posts a day minimum about a topic other than bitcoin
* Hash tag those posts with relevant hash tags and include #grownostr
* Check the #grownostr feed at least once daily and find a new hashtag to follow
* Choose one person from this new tag you have genuine interest in and follow them
* Don’t dm people about this, this is pushy and cringe reminiscent of chain emails
* The next day contribute to the new tag you found and repeat finding another new tag
but this thread is really about growth and onboarding and not discoverability.
You make good points - focus on genuine engagement, not DMs and follows for topics you aren't really interested in. I also like the continue to contribute to your new tag.
I'll circle back and try to post more on topics I've already raised - after all they are the things I care about!
what client are you using that keeps adding p tags back into the thread?
I mostly use iris.to (self hosted), but also Damus (iOS) and snort.social. This reply is via iris.to.
This may be the client trying to tag the folks in the thread. I see "replying to:" at the top of my last post. I'm guessing that's due to the p tags you are asking about.
I'm only two weeks into nostr, so if there's something I'm doing wrong, please let me know...
Trying a reply from snort.social to see if I see any difference in what the reply looks like...
^ that one worked as I thought it would (it pulled only the p tags from the note you directly replied to) but my test from iris (non-self-hosted) didn’t pull p tags from higher up in the thread, so maybe there is an update for self hosted?
(Aside) Kinda surprised that neither snort or iris has a replying to: module
#[4] #[5]
testing a reply from iris
Some influential personality is missing that will give visibility to #nostr
Who do you think it is?
Some artist of the show, a famous athlete, anyone who has sufficient reach and influence among the masses will help give more visibility to the project. As long as that doesn’t happen, I think it will be a niche product. With many incredible functionalities but without the wow effect.
I tend to agree. I think there has to be fast growth early on or it will forever remain a niche thing a handful of people use.
So did Clubhouse but after the buzz died down nobody uses it. I think Nostr needs to be a slow burn. And similar to Bitcoin most people will come as refugees shut out of the legacy centralized permissioned censorious system
So it’ll be a refugee camp? Do we want that?
I want a censor resistant citadel for freedom loving people. Censor resistance is a trade off with convenience. Only when people touch the stove and get burned by censorship will they see the value of something like Nostr. People happy with their gilded cage will never get it. All we can do is build the tools out for people for when they are ready to choose the red pill/freedom
Right now it's pull is possibility.
?
I mean there's a lot of opportunity here and lots of room for creativity. It feels organic and that's the gold standard for long term sustainability. Hype fades.
Example: Yesterday I was thinking about what vudu style movie rental would look like & the opportunity that opens up for independent filmmakers.
I don't know how but I know it will be built eventually.
It's early enough that input on development of such things still has value so that's a pull for someone like myself who's otherwise just here. It's an opportunity for someone to build something profitable and the same for those who decide to relay & maintain so that's a pull.
4 different perspectives drawn to 1 starting point of possibilities.
The pulls will shift with time as the ecosystem develops. Someday it will likely be it's complexity.
I haven't used bluesky so I can't compare but if it's leaning on clout for its marketability, it's bound to end up a touting ground. Which has its place too of course. Personally I spend a lot more time, energy, and money on family, friends, small business, and causes I believe in than I do on fandom & corporate consistency. If #nostr needs a pull, harnessing the democratization of success is great one. It's a movement already underway and still looking for useful avenues.
Micro apps… many… in due time
Which micro apps do you feel will pull people away from existing apps?
#Bitcoin ⚡️& Dead Internet Theory
Old tech is just ads/bots/de-platforming
Real humans wanting the real connection of #Nostr
I know everyone is replying ‘zaps’, but that’s not a pull for anyone other than bitcoiners, and even then isn’t enough.
I don’t know what the right pull is, but “get that internet currency the media has convinced you to hate instead of likes” isn’t the sales pitch you all think it is.
💯
I’m posing this questions and following up with other uncomfortable questions to get our minds outside of this bubble and ask ourselves what the real value proposition might be.
Let us think about how content is created on social media, who makes it, why they make it and why others consume it. Then ask ourselves if nostr will do it better.
Here’s an answer I gave on a similar topic on Twitter: 
Paywalls for bots
Freedom of speech.
Most people don’t see current problems as having an issue with freedom of speech. Networks effects too strong to move
Eventually this will change, as regulations become more draconian.
Centralized social media platforms engage in content moderation that could in some cases undermine the freedom of speech. Twitter is a prime example of this, with many documented cases. I don’t see that problem with Nostr.
I don’t disagree that there is a bigger network effect with other platforms—they’ve been around for far longer. But I also don’t know that Nostr needs to replace them. Is that really the problem that Nostr solves?
Well, nostr is supposed to be a social network. Whether it’s looking to replace anything - I don’t know. I’m just hoping to open up discussion to get people thinking about what value nostr brings and whether it’s sufficient for longer term success.
Personally I’m betting on very specific micro app use cases and perhaps a handful of influential users who pull in wave after wave of users. It may take a bit of time to get there.
Nostr is way more than a social network
I suspect that the amount of future onboarding will depend at least partly on the how much censorship people experience. There may come a time when Nostr’s uncensored freedom of speech becomes even more valuable than it is today.
As for influencers, I’m sure that will likely be part of the story. I just hope that it doesn’t become overly partisan politically. I much prefer the current vibe.
Which micro app use cases are you betting on?
Unsure, and relating to your question, I'm finding it incredibly difficult to convince people to give nostr a try. A pull is definitely needed.
For me personally it was Matt Taibbi announcing that he had an "account" on nostr and that he would cut down on twitter usage. I wanted to continue to follow his work. But this is hardly a general purpose pull strategy.
I'm curious to follow the discussions in the replies to your question.
Yes I’m also finding it difficult to get anyone curious to use it for more than a few mins.
I’m actually contacting the freedom fighters and opposition in Russia and trying to purple pill them through highlighting the censorship resistance property of #Nostr.
Censorship is a serious issue here, but the most common reply is “it’s too complicated for my followers and it’s easier for me to run twitter and explain them how to use vpn, than teach everyone to use Nostr”.
Do you think there’s a good way to convince the “influencers” to join? I think this strategy is powerful as by onboarding one person/team with a vast follower base means onboarding hundreds or even thousands of people at once.
It would be awesome if a soccer team, or any kind of team, joined Nostr.
I think part of answering what Nostr’s pull could be is finding a way to decouple its strong perceived connection to Bitcoin.
There many many people that will avoid it a all costs because of that.
Both BlueSky and Mastodon are way more diverse which makes it more appealing for people to join.
Here seems very niche. You can see this when looking at the Nostr firehose vs the BlueSky firehose for example.
I am not sure if changing this perception is even possible.
Ownership
It's got pull for developers. It's open, it's friendly, it doesn't cost money to develop for. It has some monetization built in. For example, Dave bot is already 'profitable' I heard. Twitter shit itself by kicking off the developers, many of which helped Twitter become so popular in the first place by offering useful services and information programatically. Nostr opens up many innovation avenues simply by being developer friendly.
It's also got pull for bitcoiners. Not to be underestimated, as Bitcoin grows, nostr naturally will grow also.
Most startup founders I know who build for social platforms would not risk spending time on a platform without anywhere near the number of users of existing platforms 🤷♂️
I think it will take a while.. existing platforms are entrenched, but they still can't provide what people really want it seems. 乁༼☯‿☯✿༽ㄏ
Payments integrated will eventually draw content interesting masses.
For this to happen mainstream artists have to be drawn first.