The short answer is the historical reality of the resurrection of Jesus.

Other religionists who want people to believe them rely on "Just trust me, bro' to gain converts.

Christianity, on the other hand, is rooted in history. There are many eyewitnesses to the resurrection, to the truth of Christianity.

Nearly all of Jesus' first disciples, the apostles, we're killed for their propclamation of the resurrection not one of them cracked and said, " 'Okay, I'm sorry. It was all just a lie..'

Who would suffer such cruel deaths knowing that it's for a lie?

Back to the point, Christianity is rooted in history. It is not merely fable passed on like ancient Greek or Roman or Egyptian gods of old. and it bears no resemblance to the invention of the flying spaghetti monster.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Should we trust books (edited and manipulated during 2.000 years) that talk about people who may have been liars?

If cristhian God is the right one, why doesnt he proves it clearly instead of giving us a book like every other religion has?

He didn't just give us a book. That would be closer to a Protestant heresy called sola scriptura, i.e. Bible alone. That's not historical either. Jesus never wrote a book himself, rather he established a church that has existed for 2000 years. Again, it's historical.

There are extrabiblical books of history that witness to the existence of Jesus and his followers as well. It's not just a religion based on a fairytale book.

There Is a Lot Of religions with a Lot Of churches funded by a founders figures like Mahoma

Yes, there Is historical proof that he existed, that doesnt proof that he did miracles, its just paper you can believe

Because he rose from the dead and people still say "why does he prove it clearly?"

He rose from the dead or there is a 2.000 years old paper that says that he rose from the dead?

Did you saw it?

"Did you saw it?"

If so, I'm sure you would say you can't believe your eyes. You would find other explanations.

because religion is about faith and surrender in the heart of the person.

it isnt about peoples worldview being proved beyond any doubt.

I know, but faith is part of cristhiany and every other religion

Faith is part of atheism, too. It just doesn't have the evidence that Christianity has behind it.

Lol, maximum cope

The apostles dying for it…

Do you know that during all times and even in 2025 there is sects and people give all their money and even their lifes for the leader of the sect?

Huge masses of people get manipulated and they are willing to suffer or die for their leader, it happened with the apostles and it happens today with a lot of sects

The apostles did not just insist on what their teacher told them. They insisted that they saw with their own eyes his resurrection from the dead.

There's a big difference between that and just supporting your guy to the end. They had nothing to gain after seeing, along with many others, the death and burial of Jesus, and then conspiring to stupidly llie to these same people that he rose from the dead. What would the motive be for them and hundreds of others?

1. In sects a Lot os followers claim that their leader can do miracles

2. We dont know if apostles really died like that, its only write in some paper

3. Apostles had a Lot of reasons to lie about resurrection, like gaining followers

(1) Can you name one other religion where the followers of someone who was publicly executed, 100% dead, came back to life?

(2) There is good historical documentation of some of their deaths, especially, for example, Peter who died in Rome crucified upside down. If you can't believe Peter was murdered for his preaching of the resurrection in Rome, then I don't see how you can believe that George Washington was the first president of the United States. Is all written history unreliable? How can you know anything at all about history?

(3) ' Gaining followers" was not all that rewarding. It proved to be their death sentence. It would be a stupid choice. Hardly a great reward from a material perspective..

1. No, and you cant either, you were not there, you have to believe a 2.000 years old paper

2. Correct, i dont think most of what we learn from history is what really happened, we cant barely know what its true about what is happening today

3. Yeah, but they didnt knew they will die + there were others rewards + they probably truly believed in Jesus and thats why they gave their life for him (same thing happens in many sects today)

Not much I can say if we can't agree that there is such a thing as historic reliability and documentation. You can't even know with certainty what is factual today, so what's the point?

I would suggest that your speculation about the origins of religion and your philosophy about history and reality is unreliable. You cannot prove they are right. How could you?

I'm not even sure how you can name fake gods in ancient history when you don't even believe in history. Maybe all that history is made up too.

Exactly, don't trust, verify. Did you forget? The Bible, written 2,000 years ago, can't be verified

It requires faith, like all religions, so saying that your religion is the right one and not that of an Arab, Greek, or Nordic person who believes in Odin makes no sense

By your standards, you can't verify the United States was founded in 1776.

And what?

At least you dont try to Fight my argument and you change the subject because you know im right, good

That's right. I'm not going to fight against anti-historicists. The biggest reason to believe in Christianity is its historicity. But if you don't believe there is such a thing as reliable history, then there is no point.

It's like trying to explain 10 plus 10 is 20 to somebody who does not believe in numbers.

So… Dont verify, trust!

I dont like that

And no, Numbers can be verfied, bad example

Normal people can verify (and thereby trust) by means of different tools -- including history. But you are at least one tool short of a complete toolbox.

1. That's not verification

2. If you had been born in Greece when Christianity didn't exist, what religion would you have practiced? You would most likely have made sacrifices and built temples for Zeus. Christianity was invented a few thousand years ago

3. If the Christian God wanted to help us, he could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he exists, save millions of souls, and make the earth a much better place. He wouldn't leave a book written 2000 years ago as proof.

(1) LOL

(2) You don't even know Christianity began a few thousands of years ago, because you are unable to trust history.

But to play along, certainly the acceptance of some people's religion is based on their culture and times, but it doesn't follow that their religion is therefore necessarily false. It might be; it might not be. You have to have the right tools to verify, like I said.

(3) Right reason and philosophy are the tools we need. Those provide proof enough that God is, in addition to His historical resurrection from the dead. He doesn't need to die and rise from the dead every 20 years to satisfy hard-headed people -- who would likely find other explanations for it, like, "Hey, it happens every 20 years. It's natural" or "That's not God performing miracles. It's just an alien with superior capabilities."

Also, I must point out that merely believing in God's existence does not save anyone. That doesn't necessarily change the heart and soul. God gives us enough reason to believe he exists, coaxing us to pursue him. It's the pursuit of love and goodness and truth that he elicits from us, which we won't pursue if we are self-absorbed and obstinate. He already gives us enough light to see, even if only dimly at first, assuming we open our eyes and follow the light we are given.

What is your well-reasoned alternative to the existence of a God? How can anyone verify the truth of atheism (assuming you don't believe in any God)?

I believe God exists, and of all the religions, I choose to be christian because it's the one that resonates most with me and feels most real to me

But claiming to be the right religion with certainty is pointless. There are hundreds of religions, and none have clear evidence. It can't be verified, only trusted

We may or may not be right in choosing christianity.

The brand of Christianity you describe is not salvific; it is Christian in name only.

The sign Jesus gave as proof of his claims was that he would die and rise again in three days. That is a concrete event that took place in time and space -- in history.

Since you are averse to history, then it's illogical to "choose" Christianity simply because it "feels most real" to you. Who cares how you feel about it? Your feeling is much, much less reliable than credible historical evidences and sound logic and philosophy. Feelings are notoriously unreliable, unlike well-documented history. Besides, maybe there's nothing to your standing. It is all made up. Maybe there is no such person as Jesus of Nazareth.

It's okay and normal to struggle sometimes with what to believe, but that's not the same as saying no one can know what is true (that itself is a truth claim).

Our faith is not grounded in what feels right or resonates with us, but is rooted in reality, the real world.

Okay... God wants to save as many souls as possible?

So why did he leave a book written by people 2000 years ago, knowing there are so many lies and falsehoods in the world and millions of people would doubt it?

Why doesn't he give tangible evidence every day or once every 10 years?

The majority of people in the world don't believe in God or believe in other religions. Would God allow that to happen in the world knowing that most people would go to hell in that case?

Leaving a book as evidence that you are the right God doesn't make sense, knowing that all religions have the same books and that it will lead millions to fall into the wrong religion. I don't think a God of perfect intelligence wouldn't take that into account

you either have faith and sincerely believe the word of God over the world, and the lies of man or you don't. it's a test of faith and it's that simple.

That Is the exact same argument a islam person told me once, who is right you or him?

All religions ask for the same, have faith

I've already addressed these things directly. You're not paying attention.

I will add, though, that while God wants all people to be saved, Jesus also says that few will go through the straight path that leads to salvation and many will go down the wide path that leads to destruction.

He is not a cosmic, spiritual rapist -- he does not force his will on us. He invites us to answer his call. He pursues us in love, but we are able to reject him. We take the path we choose.

He does not condemn people who are invincibly ignorant. Rather, he judges people based on what they do with the light they have.

Feigned ignorance is not invincible ignorance. We cannot demand the kind of proof we insist on having, and when or how often we have it -- all the while ridiculously disputing the evidence that we *are* given.

If you do evil, but don't seek forgiveness through Jesus -- or if you don't know Jesus and don't care enough to sincerely seek out who and what God is -- then your immortal soul will take up permanent residence in hell.

Interesting God wants everyone to be saved, but creates a world where most won't...

Instead of leaving clear evidence, he leaves a book

There are hundreds of religions to choose from, all with their books, their history, their prophet, their temples, their monks...

Do you see the inconsistencies?

Do you see that in this debate, a Muslim would be giving me exactly the same arguments and with the same conviction as you?

Did I say anything about God leaving a book? You don't listen. You don't pay attention.

You said you are a Christian. What is your source of instruction for Christianity? How do you know you are a Christian?

If you deny the accuracy of the scriptures, if you don't believe in the historic Christian Church, if you deny that the Blessed Trinity is the one true God -- what makes you think you're a Christian?

You don't have Christian views. You are making up your own religion, which is not the salvific.

You still didnt say one single valid argument for why you are right and the rest of the religions and millions of persons are wrong

The worst part is that you have 100% conviction (like a muslim with islam or a member of a sect with his leader)

Open your eyes and realice that you requiere faith to be a christian and you cant prove that you are right and others religions are not

It is cool that you chose christianity but you cant prove nothing(you was probably born into it and didnt even considered or rode deeply about others religions)

If we had had this conversation in ancient Greece, I'm sure you would have argued with the same conviction that Zeus is the true god

You don't accept my valid argument from history. You don't accept miracles either. There's nothing you would accept, it seems. Even if a miracle happened before your eyes, you can always devise alternate explanations.

Of course Christianity requires faith, but so does believing in the existence of Abraham Lincoln. I never saw Abe myself, but I have faith based on the historical records, eye witnesses, and in what he has done.

Faith can either be evidence-based or blind or delusional. We have to use our brains.

If I grew up in ancient Greece, maybe I would have argued with conviction for Zeus. That changes nothing. But here is the big difference: I would not have any good evidence for it, but I do have plenty for Christianity.

I repeat myself when I say that just because people believe in false gods, or that people may believe in their god because of their culture, it does not follow that there is not a one true God -- or that one can confidently know the true God based on historic and other evidence.

Yes, I would believe in a miracle if I saw one.

When you say "valid argument from history," that's where you fail because ALL religions claim to have valid historical arguments

Abraham Lincoln existed fewer years ago, and believing he existed doesn't require an extreme level of faith because it's a more recent and proven historical event. BUT, above all, because you don't have to believe he performed miracles and was resurrected... it's not even slightly comparable

Indeed, if you had grown up in ancient Greece, you would believe in Zeus with total devotion, but again, you fail because you would be claiming the same thing you do now: you would say you have proof, witnesses, and historical facts that demonstrate clear evidence that Zeus exists (if you don't know, temples were built to Zeus, there were priests, people who claimed to have spoken with Zeus, people who claimed to have received miracles from Zeus... what you call historical evidence)

You said you believe in God and even in Christianity. Why is that, if you have a hard time believing in miracles attested to in history (what else would one expect)?

Your own version of Christianity sounds like the pagan Greek and Roman religions of gods far, far away that don't act visibly in human history.

You prefer a safer fairytale god rather than one who acts and lives among us.

Let me ask you this: When do you suppose Christianity began? And by whom?

My friend… EVERY single religion has attested miracles, which one is lying and which one is right?

This feels like an Abbot & Costello routine.

Imagine going to hell for all eternity because you decided to doubt a book written 2,000 years ago or because you chose the wrong religion...

If you really think a god of perfect intelligence would create such a world... think more deeply

Eyewitness cant agree on something that happened last week.

It isn't plausible to "its science bro" hearsay from millennia ago.

Do you believe Abraham Lincoln was shot and killed? How do you know? Did you see it happen?

I've seen other things get shot and killed. so I accept that explanation since its non-contentious and I have no great reason to doubt it.

am I sure? no.

but I dont particularly care if my current explanation of Lincolns death is accurate. If someone presented a plausible contrary I'd be fine with it.

You, on the other hand, clearly have a horse in the race and a lot invested in believing in a particular explanation of something that happened 2000 years ago.

Id slow your roll.

youre not going to prove the resurrection scientifically.

And frankly I think you totally miss the point when you try.

If you can't know that Lincoln was shot and killed, you really can't know much of anything in history. It could all be a big lie, maybe for political reasons.

And why do you think proving something scientifically is the only real proof? Can you prove THAT by science? If not, then that claim itself is self-refuting and therefore false.

There is decent scientific proof relating to these matters anyway, but no point in going into that. I'm referring to the Shroud of Turin, which scientists have examined thoroughly, and they have not been able to scientifically debunk the miraculous claims about it.

What I said was that trying to prove it scientifically was missing the point bro.

but I'm sure the Shroud of Turin is very convincing when you are looking for confirmation of what you already believe.

also

"you can't know Lincoln was shot and killed but I am SURE my very implausible miracle from 2000yrs ago is verified fact"

are you listening to yourself?

I am sure of both historical events. Historical evidence makes both of them plausible.