Nostr Web Client

One amazing thing I learned about (out of many) at the ecash conference

A router for sharing internet

Someone from India, living in a place with a lot of internet access problems, built a set-up where people can buy internet without having any internet in the first place. 1 sat per minute

He built a captive portal that you log into and the page says — I take ecash from this one mint, get ecash from there and paste it into this text box — you paste it in, hit enter, and you’re online

You’ve made an offline payment and voila, you're now online

There are many exciting Bitcoin developments happening but it's becoming more clear that ecash is a wholly different, complementary technology that does different things, including many things that Bitcoin can't do no matter how many upgrades it gets

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Discussion

AVB ( #BitcoinVillain ) 1y ago

Amazing story.

Necessity created innovation

nostr:nevent1qqs2arqqtgz5hszpdwtmcvc8r6479tullqa39uzpffxshn25c9qyancpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzccaq65ccv9k3454480sws2wqepz73q5z0m5kckslhyhh6d533jcpsgqqqqqqsj3zxhw

SoapMiner 1y ago

Should've tagged nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9thwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2a30qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7xph5zr

gladstein 1y ago 💬 1

He is the one who told me about it :)

SoapMiner 1y ago

Amen brother! 🙌🙏

SoapMiner 1y ago

nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9thwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2a30qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7xph5zr

nostr:nevent1qqs2arqqtgz5hszpdwtmcvc8r6479tullqa39uzpffxshn25c9qyancpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzccaq65ccv9k3454480sws2wqepz73q5z0m5kckslhyhh6d533jcpsgqqqqqqsj3zxhw

Sjors Provoost 1y ago

There's still a chicken-egg problem of getting something from that mint. But either someone might already have ecash from a previous time they were online, or maybe we'll have 7-Eleven ecash one day? Perfect use case for physical scratch cards.

gladstein 1y ago

I literally saw a demo yesterday for putting ecash on a hotel-type card

Gigi 1y ago

By whom? And where can I learn more about it?

gladstein 1y ago

nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg demonstrated it to me, was amazing, but was coded by someone else in just the last few days, he can tell you

DM for new npub 1y ago

Yes exactly, now you need to pay for WiFi at 7-Eleven if your not a customer with encumbered e-cash on an invoice.

Dick McPickle 1y ago

Can I tip the homeless guy panhandling outside the 7-Eleven in ecash someday?

frphank 1y ago

Ecash is online not offline.

gladstein 1y ago

Sender does not need to be online, receiver does to prevent double spending

frphank 1y ago

Correct

frphank 1y ago

Here's what an offline payment looks like.

https://imgs.search.brave.com/trTZK4LrnCXddsSoniYAmeZV34nhLz_TVGYeTJIpor8/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu/YmFua3JhdGUuY29t/LzIwMjAvMDYvMDQx/MDQ0NDgvOC1vZi10/aGUtbW9zdC12YWx1/YWJsZS1jb2lucy03/LmpwZWc

Horszt 1y ago

Have to inform myself on this! What would ecash be and why is it different from BTC… you don’t have to answer, I will take this to the study room 🧡

Alex 1y ago

Ecash is like a poker chip representing bitcoin. Give Bitcoin to the mint (casino), get chips back, spend however you want (the mint doesn’t know how you use it, private by default). Cash out whenever. Only risk is trusting the mint not to steal your Bitcoin or printing more tokens than they actually have

vaultbyte 1y ago

That’s awesome! I knew we didn’t need helium or other shitcoins - just straightforward Bitcoin tech doing its thing. It’s just all about layers.

SoapMiner 1y ago 💬 1

I know that I don't know as much as everyone else, but I do know this. I sell products on nostr:nprofile1qqs2xugc5jyguqkj36rk0syv4tmnkjdtmtperttl7x9rqjy3ustdcvcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qg6waehxw309aek2mnyd96zumn0wdnxcctjv5hxxmmd9uxa0uz8 and nostr:nprofile1qqsdxm5qs0a8kdk6aejxew9nlx074g7cnedrjeggws0sq03p4s9khmqpzemhxue69uhksctkv4hzucmpd3mxztnyv4mz7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7msmsjt has been extremely helpful. They use nostr:nprofile1qqsdce6pctgcy5ahvd5xhxk0q3fynzrvd5npgrgsl6p29nnwjuc8caqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtctflhwu for the transactions, and I've never had problems with it. Ppl order, I get the Sats, I get the address and what they order, I ship. They are happy, and I did my job. V4V. The Bitcoin Standard.

Luigi💚💚💚💔 1y ago

Hey Alex, I’ve been tryna find that hoodie in your pfp, mind pointing me in the direction where I can grab one ? Thx

gladstein 1y ago

I actually custom made it! :)

Luigi💚💚💚💔 1y ago

*Tips hat.

Love it. That explains why I haven’t been able to find one ! Thanks anyway

Luigi💚💚💚💔 1y ago

Dude I still can’t find anywhere reliable to make this exact hoodie LoL

Would u mind posting the site ?

calvadev⚡️ 1y ago

Was able to get one of the routers up and running during nostr:nprofile1qqsxhwmaw842y4zzzk580cfke4l5jr6xyh44v3v6pk59dnyzjm2a7vqcd5flv, and after some initial troubleshooting, it worked great! It's pretty magical seeing it in action.

You can set one up with the following repo:

https://github.com/OpenTollGate/TollGateNostrToolKit

H/t to nostr:nprofile1qqsxyllxr558rfkrn7df69cshgd3qy0rwev0a4l5sfuq754vpu5spjspr3mhxue69uhkymmnw3ezummjv9hxwetn09hxxtn5v43kstcpzemhxue69uhk7unpdenk2umede3juar9vd5z7qgcwaehxw309ahx7um5wghxx6rpd9kkztnfdenx7tcxrs4x8 for his work on the project; forwarding any zaps on this note to him.

If you're in Berlin, you can also purchase a router to run the TollGate software directly from him via nostr:nprofile1qqs2xugc5jyguqkj36rk0syv4tmnkjdtmtperttl7x9rqjy3ustdcvcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qg6waehxw309aek2mnyd96zumn0wdnxcctjv5hxxmmd9uxa0uz8:

https://shopstr.store/listing/d2c13f066fe04022f06bcd67debc27d73b915be9e19d3c879bb34cb3a15809a3

nostr:nevent1qqs2arqqtgz5hszpdwtmcvc8r6479tullqa39uzpffxshn25c9qyancpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qtrr5r2nrpsk6xkjk5a7p6pfcryyt6yzsflwjmz6r7uj7lfkjxxtqxpqqqqqqzar9z8w

SuiGenerisJohn 1y ago

cashuAeyJ0b2tlbiI6W3sibWludCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vbWludC5taW5pYml0cy5jYXNoL0JpdGNvaW4iLCJwcm9vZnMiOlt7ImlkIjoiMDA1MDA1NTBmMDQ5NDE0NiIsImFtb3VudCI6NCwic2VjcmV0IjoiZXlsN2U0Y1NWQktCVlFMSlMvNWxCYXBDUGU5c3JPQUoyNENsVTNOK1UyRT0iLCJDIjoiMDJhYTk3NDc1ZTBkMTY5YWFkZjQyNzM0Yjg0MTdmMGUwN2VjMmI0YWJiYWRlZTBhZjlhZDhkZGM2YzE5NjNjNjM4In0seyJpZCI6IjAwNTAwNTUwZjA0OTQxNDYiLCJhbW91bnQiOjMyLCJzZWNyZXQiOiIweWs4b3Myb2xDa3pVOGFYUmFYTzB6aUI2SUpUdjd5TkNnZDZQQm52QjBFPSIsIkMiOiIwMzY1NzgzNTE5YTgwNTIzODEyNTQwNDc3MzhkMmZjOGI5ODU2ZjBmMTgyYmYxNTAzZDY1ZWU1OTc3MzIzNDQzYTUifSx7ImlkIjoiMDA1MDA1NTBmMDQ5NDE0NiIsImFtb3VudCI6NjQsInNlY3JldCI6IldoYS9vdC83SzBsV252bE0waUk0bW9mbzVZdTRRVnFSMjdRZi8yaTRIZHc9IiwiQyI6IjAyMGM1ODJlMDA3YzFhZTQwOWFiYzk1NGRhNTVkMTA0N2FjMGY5YzgyOGMwZWMxMzk0YmFhYWJkZmEzYTFjYmJmYiJ9XX1dLCJtZW1vIjoiU2VudCB2aWEgZU51dHMuIn0

miles 🌞 1y ago

This is Chandran, the creator: npub1vfl7v8fgwxnv88u6n5t3pwsmzqg7xajclmtlfqncpaf2crefqr9qu2kruy

Jake Woodhouse 1y ago

Need to keep learning about ecash

Thanks for sharing

Kush 1y ago

Massive

yoiyok 1y ago

If the router can support eSIM, for example, which we buy at Bitrefill, it seems like we can get a local ISP connection without having to do KYC, right?

Actually I am annoyed at the ISP via GSM in my country which is expensive and has a small quota.

I hope to use Starlink but the monthly rate is still expensive, try cheaper even though the speed is limited to 20Mbps

nostr:nevent1qqs2arqqtgz5hszpdwtmcvc8r6479tullqa39uzpffxshn25c9qyancpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsygzccaq65ccv9k3454480sws2wqepz73q5z0m5kckslhyhh6d533jcpsgqqqqqqswmfuzs

Rijndael 1y ago 💬 1

Thats really cool. This is exactly the kind of scenario where the custodial and trusted nature of an ecash mint just don’t matter. Great use of the tech!

Frank Braun 1y ago

It turns out that once you have a cheap, fast, and programmable payment layer a lot of innovations become possible.

Too bad a lot is basically in a legal grey area.

Andromedaguard 1y ago

Game changer.......

Baerwaldt ⚡️ 1y ago

Everyday I learn something new on #nostr that X just can’t compete with. This open source development is changing the world. Nice work

Jim Smij 1y ago

this is some life changing shit...

#innovation #bigbrain

#smij #zapd #grownostr

nostr:nevent1qqs2arqqtgz5hszpdwtmcvc8r6479tullqa39uzpffxshn25c9qyancpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzccaq65ccv9k3454480sws2wqepz73q5z0m5kckslhyhh6d533jcpsgqqqqqqsj3zxhw

deimos 1y ago

Sounds like Boingo with Bitcoin.

Luke 1y ago

Next we need LoRa-based routers that do this so we can accept users from further away than simple 2.4G hz distances.

Yes, LoRa is bandwidth-limited, but they are very cheap. Couldn't these devices be stacked, so you'd connect to a thousand of them instead of just 1?

good Vietnam 1y ago

Lora based mesh network

DM for new npub 1y ago

LoRa (and nostr) can be really useful for metadata that routers use to discover new peers. When it comes to transport, I've accepted that TCP-IP is the best we've got. However, I don't accept authorities like ICANN and IANA as a requirement. I think nostr relays allow us to have efficient transport on competing networks.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 1y ago

We still need alternatives to TCP/IP

Has anyone tried putting the TCP UNDER the IP?

/dev/fd0 1y ago

Maybe ecash enthusiasts need to learn what bitcoin can do even without upgrades:

nostr:note1ls03lwkqgseem2vgcaky9atjx6vx3wl80zj62llkc54gkf5lqh5q9eeh5k

Dan 1y ago

Cashu isn't an upgrade to or replacement of lightning. Mints are lighting nodes. The scenario calle described literally is not possible with LN alone.

/dev/fd0 1y ago

- Please read the tweet I replied to so that you understand the context of 'upgrades'

- Mints are third parties who custody bitcoin for users that may or may not use LN nodes. I have experimented enough and running a mint: https://thismoneydoesnotexist.lol

- It is possible with LN

gladstein 1y ago

Great. Then we will have both solutions

DM for new npub 1y ago

LNURLw works if you're offline, but your internet gateway is online to redeem the payment. You can also use e-cash non custodially if you run your own mint

Custody clearly comes with risks, though I want to have e-cash if I must use a custodian, because standardizing the interaction with custodians allows me to leave the custodian frictionlessly and it happens to come with privacy.

Yesterday I witnessed atomic real time channel rebalancing involving mints. Users of lightning can benefit from the liquidity without using custodians themselves.

/dev/fd0 1y ago 💬 1

> You can also use e-cash non custodially if you run your own mint

Running your own mint, using it to mint ecash for yourself does not improve privacy. You might as well run LN node instead and use LN with self custody.

Recipient needs to be online for redeeming e-cash if its issues by untrusted mint.

> though I want to have e-cash if I must use a custodian

Why do you need a custodian in the first place? Whole point of creating bitcoin was to create e-cash with no trusted third parties. You can read old discussions on mailing lists, whitepaper and initial website.

> Users of lightning can benefit from the liquidity without using custodians themselves

AFAIK e-cash is used for small amount. Lightning already gets enough liquidity from boltz swaps, centralized exchanges etc. Ark and Mercury could provide more liquidity in the future without involving trusted third parties.

Dan 1y ago

- it's not a tweet

- cool

- no it's not

/dev/fd0 1y ago

Yes I was responding to someone on twitter at the same time so wrote "tweet" instead of post. It is possible and shared multiple times in this thread DYOR.

Dan 1y ago

No... it isn't. None of the approaches shared are situationally equivalent.