Anyone ever just stop and think for a bit, about the fact that #Bitcoin fucking works?

Seriously appreciate it for a second from the view of those trying to think it up when this was literal science fiction. What an absolutely insane long shot. The very notion that practically a handful of nerdy anarchists & dissidents on the internet could create a global monetary network who’s rules would supersede governments across the planet… it’s almost idiotic it sounds so improbable.

And for everyone squealing about what the price did last week or how in 10 years we will have X problem or whatever… it’s easy to forget that it’s just there. That it’s working. That it’s half a trillion dollars worth. That it’s monetary policy hasn’t changed since block 0. And despite the ire of countless authoritarians… it persists.

What a wild fucking timeline.

With mercury layer you don't have to worry about incoming liquidity, the privacy is very high, it's like exchanging cash and the scalability is total, again like exchanging cash, in fact you exchange the private keys outside the chain.

On the other hand the cons is that I understand that it will be a federated system.

I'm not very clear about the specification, I read somewhere that it would be federated but don't take it into account.

Thank you for the clarification however regardless of whether or not they're technically on the main chain or not, the point still stands if it would enable modification of the #Bitcoin miners incentive structure away from them purely producing #bitcoin for their profit targets.

Some of my thoughts on the recent DRIVECHAIN topic..

What do you think the odds are that all these recent efforts to push additional assets into the L1 #Bitcoin chain such as taro, ordinals, inscriptions, and now #drivechains could just be attempts by the #tradfi regime to break the #Bitcoin miners economic Game Theory relating to the block reward and turn layer 1 bitcoin into a fiat printer? To me this seems probable as they likely need to figure out a way to sustain their mining operation investments without dumping piles of external cash into them should the block reward fall below the cost of production of the #Bitcoin reward in fiat terms (as we're still stuck in a fiat world) since most of these folks do not possess money printers directly. So rather than letting their miners go broke trying to keep the fiat price down and fund the operations by selling the Bitcoin for fiat, they can just create a bunch of BS tokens and junk in the blockchain that they can trade for fiat currency instead.

This would allow #tradfi more time to strategically position themselves and infiltrate key #bitcoin industry players (and influencers) before #Hyperbitcoinization and would also allow them to wait out some of the hodlers who will not be willing to take their Bitcoins to their graves in hopes that they would sell them back to them so they can control a Fiat price even longer.

Since I truly believe that they can't incentivize a lot of us hardcore Bitcoin mindset folks to sell for their Fiat currency, the thought by #tradfi is apparently that they will instead attempt to control a lot of the infrastructure for the future Hyperbitcoinization world or a world that they think they may have a chance at influencing the protocol development in some roundabout way to their benefit ( which I don't see plausible as I think we will see right through it all).

So far here's some main red flags I see from a self sovereignty #bitcoin maximalist perspective who's goal is to push self custody #bitcoin and has hopes for the separation of (all) states from currency:

- The largest #tradfi players snapping investments in the top big players in the #bitcoin mining space (Blackrock, Fidelity, etc.)

- The same #tradfi players + are all tripping over each other begging the SEC to green light spot ETFs as to be able to create even more paper Bitcoin. - This simultaneously attempts to get Main St to normalize counterparty risk in Bitcoin via #tradfi by investing and accepting their ETFs in lieu of Self custody BTC.

IMO these activities are all part of their goal of attempting to keep the bitcoin price in USD suppressed as long as possible and to do that they need to break the bitcoin economic game theory incentives built into bitcoin where miners are only rewarded with 21MM #btc and TX fees and make fiat other ways with their miners such as by adding #ordinals, #insciptions and are now seemingly trying to push for drivechains to get 💩 tokens in L1.

By breaking the #btc miners economic game theory with just the block reward (but now with ordinals, inscriptions, and if they have their way soon too be DRIVECHAIN bs tokens) they're hoping the price in fiat can be suppressed even longer while allowing them the ability to generate enough fiat currency stuff contained to fund their operations and more time to control even more of the miners and simultaneously hoping to wait out as many HODLers as possible in the hopes that eventually some will sell their #bitcoin and thus they can scoop it up for a relatively cheap amount of fiat which would allow them to control the fiat value of the #btc longer and in turn which would keep the fiat machine alive longer and hence the monopoly of currency in the governments hands.

Fortunately we can reject their plans of attacking the bitcoin miners economic incentive mechanism by not voting for their version of #bitcoin and running our own nodes. That said however I would not sell any of their forks that may happen as they'll likely scoop those up too and actually may drive the public perception that their chain is the true #btc as they drive it's fiat price up as to keep mainstream away from the ideals of the original #bitcoin ( decentralized, irreversible, confiscation resistant, separating money from state, no counterparty risk etc).

However the next few years play out it's going to be a very bumpy road and I am not selling any of my forks no matter how much Fiat they offer and will certainly never vote for anything that deviates from the original economic incentives that the miners have with the block reward.

✌️

"Lots of shitcoins would lose their purpose..."

Their purpose is seignorage, first and foremost. Drivechains do not fix this.

Ah, thanks for outlining this scenario... So if most node operators don't upgrade their node to "version drive chain" than the bitcoin locked up in drivechains would likely get pillaged to the point that no one would risk locking up bitcoin in a drivechain?

Miners can certainly initiate their own Drivechain soft fork. The question is whether they can maintain it.

The instant that a majority of hash is not defending the escrow, it’ll drain to the defecting miners. In effect, the sidechain escrow acts as a bounty, begging miners to drop the fork and take it.

This is why Drivechain truly needs the support of node operators. Nodes must be willing to invalidate the escrow piracy attempts, otherwise miners are incentivized to defect.

What is the perceived threat vector of BIP 300 / Drive Chains towards L1 mainchain BTC?

How does one replicate something that is Proof of Stake as an L2 on BTC?

Is a drivechain sidechain ever a an actual blockchain? Can it be? Or would all of this just be often chain side ledgers like Lightning?

#AskNostr

#Plebchain

#Bitcoin

Do you mean the soviet union from 1991?

The peoples coin

It doesn't benefit us. That's the point. It's just a con game. They want to #fuck us and all of #Bitcoin up the #ass..💀

Where do you get the #fucking mistaken idea that what you think or want with respect to #Bitcoin matters..💀👹

I'm suggeating it to be a hard fork. Learn the difference yourself ✅️ Why are you commenting if you don't understand the basics?

This is FOSS! Go have at er!

Here: go Google search "Bitcoin Cash" (Bcash) and report back.

K good. Tell me what you learned. Hope it helped!

A hard fork makes everyone choose which idea is the most popular and which they want. And, most importantly, it's proof of work. ✅️

So... if Drivechain is SUUUUUCH a great idea, then 100% the hard fork will succeed, right????

Right???

Right!

You Drivechain guys should all support a hard fork! Show eveyone! Go on. Come on. Show us. Propose it to miners. Let's see.

Ya know. The drivechain crew would get more respect if they were at least upfront with their actual endeavors.

Are you a Solana guy? Can't wait to Drivechain some Ethereum derivitive? What EXACTLY do you want Drivechain for????? 🤔

Exactly. Checkmate.

There's no good reason. Only shitcoining bad projects which are rugpull pump n dumps and increasing miners activity.

Which are you?

The debate about Drivechains is mode political than it is technical.

In practice, every sane bitcoiner wants real sidechains to provide privacy, scalability, speed, more advanced scripting languages, and the opportunity for everyone around the world to own a UTXO and self-custody it in cold storage.

A Zcash sidechain would contribute towards fungibility. A big block sidechain can be used to open and close Lightning channels at the lowest price. An Ethereum sidechain can attract some projects that want to port their code to a more secure Proof of Work chain.

Lots of shitcoins would lose their purpose and get drained of use cases. The exchanges would no longer act as scaling layers to the same degree, as the users won’t have to worry about high fees for their withdrawals.

The 21 million BTC limit also remains unchanged forever, as the fees coming from sidechains would cover the security budget. No more discussions about tail emmission or inflation.

But the issue is that miners refeivr godlike powers in these sidechains and can potentially refuse to release the funds to users or else steal. According to the game theory, miners should follow the economic rationale that maintains their reputation and keeps their revenue source flowing.

But it’s hard to have guarantees when you deal with dynamic actors that follow their incentives and might think short-term.

Lots of parties don’t want miners to gain even more power/control. But the issue is not shitcoinery, that’s only the lazy deflection which doesn’t excuse anyone from not reading.

Drivechain needs node operators to enforce the rule change, otherwise it wouldn’t be a soft fork.

I’m a node operator. I want to know how it benefits me to perform this labor. So far, I have only heard arguments about how it benefits other people, your post being the most recent example.

It honestly comes across as a classic bitcoin affinity scam. We have working sidechains…that arnt trying to change the rules….that are empty… waiting for demand

L1 miners can win sidechain blocks the old fashioned way, by inserting the side chain blocks into the block they find. Or they can use the auction if they want.

It’s good to separate the two BIPs I think 300 might have some decent use scenarios that don’t rely on the shoddy game theory in 301