Nostr Web Client

When you want to reach a lot of people then use twitter or threads or any of the "popular" networks. When you want to express your opinions without interference, use #nostr.

As more and more people start falling into that latter category, the weight will shift towards #nostr.

From: (udi) at 07/15 08:15

> I get more reach and engagement on threads with 3,000 followers than nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m gets here with 150,000 followers

> When I want people to take action I have no reason to come here

> Thoughts?

CC: #[3]

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Discussion

Udi Wertheimer 🧙‍♂️ 2y ago

So far the it has been trending the opposite way. Twitter and Threads are growing, adding more users every day than the entire user base of nostr

f*N grows faster when N is very large. The base of #nostr is small compared to twitter and threads; but the f for #nostr has been very high. Irrespective of that, however, is that the motivation for using #Nostr is different. For those of us who want control over our words, and our ideas, using #Nostr for that purpose is important.

It may be that the "popular" networks _always_ have more users than #Nostr. That's OK with me. I don't use #Nostr for reach. I use #Nostr to communicate without the impediment of censorious overlords who think they are smart.

From: (udi) at 07/15 09:39

> So far the it has been trending the opposite way. Twitter and Threads are growing, adding more users every day than the entire user base of nostr

CC: #[4]

CC: #[5]

Udi Wertheimer 🧙‍♂️ 2y ago

I really do care about reach. It’s the only reason I use social networks, to reach people from outside of my network.

When I communicate with people within my network, I prefer encrypted messaging apps.

That said, I’ve always been an Uncle Bob fan and really happy that I was able to reach you here, so maybe nostr is useful to me for reach after all! 🧡

Bitcoin or Slavery 2y ago

How do you know the user base of Nostr?

From: (EndWEF) at 07/16 05:35

> How do you know the user base of Nostr?

It's a distributed network, so there's no definitive value for the number of users. stats.nostr.band has some interesting statistics based on watching a subset of all the relays.

CC: #[4]

CC: #[5]

CC: #[6]

Betty🌹 2y ago

Awesome 👏💫

Bitcoin or Slavery 2y ago

Nostr is not a social network

It doesn't surprise me that Udi thinks Nostr "engagement" is comparable to centralized discovery-curated social networks

Perhaps you meant that #nostr is a protocol and that social networks can be built on top of protocols.

From: (EndWEF) at 07/16 05:28

> Nostr is not a social network

> It doesn't surprise me that Udi thinks Nostr "engagement" is comparable to centralized discovery-curated social networks

CC: #[5]

CC: #[6]

CC: #[7]

Respectfully, this is a cope. There will always be a vast majority of people that never even desire to say something outside of the acceptable discourse (Overton Window).

Walled Gardens have more engagement because they use algorithms to surface content that they know the user will find interesting.

There is no reason Nostr can’t do this other than the culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience.

There is nothing that prevents #nostr relays from developing algorithms that favor certain content, or that recognize the preferences of their users and forward favored content to them. Nothing prevents a relay from sending it's own messages to users with recommendations for notes, users, and/or other relays. I think it's just a matter of time before that kind of stuff happens.

Relays can also inhibit certain users and certain topics. Again, this is just a matter of time.

The difference is that the walls of the walled garden are not prisons. Any #nostr user can step outside one walled garden into another, or into the unwalled stream of free information.

From: tekne<-cameri at 07/17 10:47

> Respectfully, this is a cope. There will always be a vast majority of people that never even desire to say something outside of the acceptable discourse (Overton Window).

> Walled Gardens have more engagement because they use algorithms to surface content that they know the user will find interesting.

> There is no reason Nostr can’t do this other than the culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience.

CC: #[5]

CC: #[6]

CC: #[7]

jack 2y ago

Examples of culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience?

Linux Walt 2y ago

It isn't "more interesting" content that gets surfaced. It is whatever is conflict-generating. Engagement goes sky-high when different sides of controversial issues get thrown in each others' feeds.

SirJamzAlot 2y ago

using lightning for tipping instead of monero

Thomas Paine 2y ago

This could be just a NIP away. Nostr is open to that addition.

bitbuybyte 2y ago

Exactly. Few communities cope harder than Monero maxis

bitbuybyte 2y ago

Cope harder. “If you want it, build it.” If people want it, they will use it.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

It's already being built by tannerdsilva and a few others, but will take time. Nostr is very bitcoin centric atm so it shouldnt be surprising that their is a lag in development from Monero community on Nostr. I think a lot of Monero users appreciate Nostr as a protocol and see it's value.

bitbuybyte 2y ago

Cool! I do appreciate that monero users and bitcoiners generally have a common understanding of the value of open source and privacy. As for the rest of it, to each their own. But if if you want it, build it. 🤝 Don’t complain like the guy above you

twentyone 2y ago

Quality over quantity. Both #[5] and #nostr equals quality 🤙🏼💜

SubconsciousErosion_0x0 2y ago

1) People carrying their bad habits from Twitter over here....

RUN BIYING 2y ago

Difference between “journalism“ and “entertainment“?

nobody 2y ago

people use it like other platforms. they think all social media is interchangeable. this is a profound mistake. they'd like damus a lot if they understood the actual reasons the platforms differ - but there's too much programmer jargon which inhibits your average person from accessing the reality of what is actually happening on each platform. someone brace should write a universal, basic, simple non-programmer article or series of articles comparing and contrasting real life reasons (not crossworded) to consider the differences and similarities of social media platforms.

Being vehemently “anti-algorithm” is a great example of it.

Marketing Nostr as being free from monetizing users is another. (Relays are sitting on a gold mine. They will absolutely monetize on it)

maybe the answer is simpler - "Walled Gardens" are businesses... nostr is all made by hobbyists and no one even bothered to think about how to make a business out of this yet, since peeps like nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m just pick up the tab?

Brunswick 2y ago

Good point, Bitcoin and nostr are community lead.

Big tech and cryptos are businesses.

Most people are used to their lives subject to businesses and government, but most people don't like it any more than they like signing up with the selective service.

If you prefer to use public transportation and refuse to own a car, even when its within your means, then walled gardens are for you.

If you prefer freedom, eventually you will learn how to drive a car.

Relays will eventually NEED to find a way to make money off of the data they’re holding. Just need to find buyers.

Users will then start using encrypted data a lot more to protect against it. Relays will then need to charge for encrypted data (because they can’t monetize on that)

agree, though most people care not about either their privacy or security or sovereignty or truth

and have been made addicted to free shit over agency, comforts over conscience and mindless entertainment over truth

we've all been made comfortably numb

the challenge is to build business that emancipates the battery chickens that we've become yet is also useful and attractive to us with feeble legs and fat breasts

nostr is more of a cold-turkey boot-camp experience right now

I think it is natural for Relays and Users to have an antagonistic relationship. Similar in to Bitcoin, the game theory should be embraced.

Relays have to monetize user data? Okay, users start encrypting their data.

Users encrypt their data? Okay, relays charge money to post encrypted data.

i agree it's natural that every client-service relationship contains an element of the juxtaposed objectives, but they must be balanced by the low-time preference belief in the good of long-term sustainable symbiotic relationships or else we're kinda doomed

so i think the relays / businesses that will win are those that offer better service and establish long-term credibility even at the expense of short-term gain that might have been possible through adversarial pursuits

Sure, but any short term good will has to also be in the hopes of long term bigger profit.

Similar to bitcoin, anything that relies on good will alone is not sustainable. It’s also why I find the idea of zaps unhelpful.

It’s like thinking that adding a mural in the ghetto is going to revitalize their economy. Economies can’t run on good vibes!