I get more reach and engagement on threads with 3,000 followers than nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m gets here with 150,000 followers
When I want people to take action I have no reason to come here
Thoughts?
Discussion
Bro you just a hater. Stop starting drama and contribute value. Stop with the drama you dont like or understand #nostr than stay the fuck off it bro you a herb like a little kid grow the fuck up
Contribute value here or go fuck yourself.
Yes well said Kid_btc fuckin threads fucking stay over there and don't be coming here starting drama threads is for leftists who love censorship full stop. If you curse over there you be banned!!!!!
jiminy christmas you guys are MAD
Mute the man gentleman. Don’t feed the trolls.
You just mad we don't follow your stupid as like the sheep on twatter
You’re literally following me
And it took you 2 minutes to say exactly what I wanted you to say
Dude you can always get more engagement through the centralized “current thing”
I guess? But if you want to drive people to take action… shouldn’t you take advantage of the best tools available to you?
Yes, it’s a “both and” at this point. We want to make all of this more mainstream, while doing our best to advocate for decentralized, freedom promoting tools. People will almost always go with the easier more centralized option at this point. Encouraging and building ease of access decentralized tools is the way…incredibly hard atm, but strides are being made (imo I think nostr:npub18m76awca3y37hkvuneavuw6pjj4525fw90necxmadrvjg0sdy6qsngq955 and nostr:npub1mutnyacc9uc4t5mmxvpprwsauj5p2qxq95v4a9j0jxl8wnkfvuyque23vg are two great examples)
I use and enjoy both of these apps. I like them personally. I also think they stand 0 chance of hitting even 0.1% of the usage stats of threads
Doesn’t mean threads is good or right!
Just popular
Build parallel systems while the current ones implode at some point. Onboard as much as possible. Meet people where they’re at. I think that should be the goal. You may be correct, but in the end it’s about individuals doing the right thing that is better for humanity.
I don’t think Facebook, threads, etc, is good for humanity
I should add, all of this has to be voluntary. Don’t want to force people into bitcoin, nostr, whatever is to come. Make it widely available, providing real world use cases, a BETTER option that is needed and wanted in a free market
I don’t know what is or isn’t good for the world. It’s a complex equation imo. Some things they do are bad. I think some other things facebook has done have been intensely positive for many people’s lives. For example many small businesses have been transformed.
That aside, of course I support the idea of making nostr bigger. The point that I’m trying to allude to is that for that to happen it would have to somehow compete better on reach, imo
Chicken and egg, I know, but also many in nostr seem to think reach doesn’t matter at all, and that’s a problem imo
#GrowNostr 🫡
No yeah reach does matter. Perpetuating a cult mentality is stupid, but many builders in the space are pushing for mass adoption
Here we are free of algos and in control of our data and privacy. Nostr will not have the reach of Twitter anytime soon. Quality > quantity. I do hope more non-btc people join to add variety. You are a good start.
Good riddance
i think threads is pretty good and prefer it to twitter. i like nostr and the idea of what it could be but if it doesn’t grow beyond a small but dedicated group of bitcoiners it won’t work 🤷♂️
The masses, the normal people that are not bitcoiners need to experience the pain for they can realize that they need this more than ever. #nostr isn't going anywhere #nistr will and is gonna swallow every social media platform uts just a matter of time..
Great approach man
Yeah, agreed. Makes a lot of sense to me to use a combo of twitter and threads (and other apps!) but I still can’t find a real usecase for nostr
Only thing it’s good for so far is for triggering maxis, and frankly I can do it without coming here
You get more "reach" bc of platform algorithms where someone with low following don't even get seen, while people with more followers get help and more visibility . There is no "reach" or engagement in Nostr, you want to be relevant you have to keep constantly giving value to others, not the algo, but having a nostr client with an algorithm to boost "influencers" could be a nice ideia.
I don’t think it’s just that. But either way I don’t really care why it’s happening. I’m just stating that threads as a tool is useful to people trying to drive others to take action. Nostr, currently, not so much
It is an severe echo chamber that for the most part the users don’t like you. I do hope one day the protocol is adopted more widely by groups other than just bitcoin and other cryptocurrency advocates. Is what it is. I’ll keep using it but far less than Twitter for time being. Try to keep under an hour a day on any social media. So no interest in Threads or any of that hype.
Oh no they don’t like me? 😅
Perhaps I should have said this bunch of your haters opt not to engage as much. 😂 you’ve upset them too much and it broke their will to argue anymore.
That’s ok and understandable, I was never expecting a lot of engagement here for my public account
What I’m saying is that even as a small account on threads, I get more engagement than @jack does here (and he’s the largest account on nostr!)
Except engagement is worth nothing on threads and engagement is the hardest money on earth here.
Jack has made an infinite proportion higher money get zapped here than getting worthless likes on threads
Likes are a shitcoin, your engagement is masturbatory
As I tried to allude to in the original note above, as far as I’m concerned engagement is a good way to measure one’s ability to drive people to take action
Of course likes don’t carry monetary value, but the ability to get your message across and have people act on it is valuable. Very valuable!
Plenty of businesses find it worth enough to run ads or ad like posts paid for by them. I haven’t and won’t use it. Indirect profits from ads is still making them money. Whether what it costs vs how much more business they get is debatable. You can dislike something but can’t deny it has its purpose and probably serving it to some degree. Ads are basically free here but not enough engagement for any company outside a cc based project or these “web3”4,5,6,7,8 buffoons who still mostly use the other platforms to get more reach. It’s simple and this place is currently serving like a total of 2 current purposes. An extremely wealthy dude who doesn’t need money getting the most on here vs Twitter now paying people money for just interacting and promoting ads for revenue. I love the Nostr protocol but it has a long way to go. Let the best clients win.
It's not about the quantity nor quality of users. It's about freedom without freaking algos and permissionless building on top of this protocol. You still don't get it nostr:npub137lghaz3q3850343kupy2mx67r03qf6ccjvnpyjual6mkw436xlq3hkxgf
I have all the freedom I need. Including the freedom to pick and choose which app and services I use to achieve my goals. I use them while they are useful to me, and if they stop being useful I can stop using them. To me that’s freedom
When you want to reach a lot of people then use twitter or threads or any of the "popular" networks. When you want to express your opinions without interference, use #nostr.
As more and more people start falling into that latter category, the weight will shift towards #nostr.
From: (udi) at 07/15 08:15
> I get more reach and engagement on threads with 3,000 followers than nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m gets here with 150,000 followers
>
> When I want people to take action I have no reason to come here
>
> Thoughts?
CC: #[3]
So far the it has been trending the opposite way. Twitter and Threads are growing, adding more users every day than the entire user base of nostr
f*N grows faster when N is very large. The base of #nostr is small compared to twitter and threads; but the f for #nostr has been very high. Irrespective of that, however, is that the motivation for using #Nostr is different. For those of us who want control over our words, and our ideas, using #Nostr for that purpose is important.
It may be that the "popular" networks _always_ have more users than #Nostr. That's OK with me. I don't use #Nostr for reach. I use #Nostr to communicate without the impediment of censorious overlords who think they are smart.
From: (udi) at 07/15 09:39
> So far the it has been trending the opposite way. Twitter and Threads are growing, adding more users every day than the entire user base of nostr
CC: #[4]
CC: #[5]
I really do care about reach. It’s the only reason I use social networks, to reach people from outside of my network.
When I communicate with people within my network, I prefer encrypted messaging apps.
That said, I’ve always been an Uncle Bob fan and really happy that I was able to reach you here, so maybe nostr is useful to me for reach after all! 🧡
How do you know the user base of Nostr?
From: (EndWEF) at 07/16 05:35
> How do you know the user base of Nostr?
It's a distributed network, so there's no definitive value for the number of users. stats.nostr.band has some interesting statistics based on watching a subset of all the relays.
CC: #[4]
CC: #[5]
CC: #[6]
Awesome 👏💫
Nostr is not a social network
It doesn't surprise me that Udi thinks Nostr "engagement" is comparable to centralized discovery-curated social networks
Perhaps you meant that #nostr is a protocol and that social networks can be built on top of protocols.
From: (EndWEF) at 07/16 05:28
> Nostr is not a social network
>
> It doesn't surprise me that Udi thinks Nostr "engagement" is comparable to centralized discovery-curated social networks
CC: #[5]
CC: #[6]
CC: #[7]
Respectfully, this is a cope. There will always be a vast majority of people that never even desire to say something outside of the acceptable discourse (Overton Window).
Walled Gardens have more engagement because they use algorithms to surface content that they know the user will find interesting.
There is no reason Nostr can’t do this other than the culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience.
There is nothing that prevents #nostr relays from developing algorithms that favor certain content, or that recognize the preferences of their users and forward favored content to them. Nothing prevents a relay from sending it's own messages to users with recommendations for notes, users, and/or other relays. I think it's just a matter of time before that kind of stuff happens.
Relays can also inhibit certain users and certain topics. Again, this is just a matter of time.
The difference is that the walls of the walled garden are not prisons. Any #nostr user can step outside one walled garden into another, or into the unwalled stream of free information.
From: tekne<-cameri at 07/17 10:47
> Respectfully, this is a cope. There will always be a vast majority of people that never even desire to say something outside of the acceptable discourse (Overton Window).
>
> Walled Gardens have more engagement because they use algorithms to surface content that they know the user will find interesting.
>
> There is no reason Nostr can’t do this other than the culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience.
CC: #[5]
CC: #[6]
CC: #[7]
Examples of culture of Nostr being ignorant and discouraging good user experience?
It isn't "more interesting" content that gets surfaced. It is whatever is conflict-generating. Engagement goes sky-high when different sides of controversial issues get thrown in each others' feeds.
using lightning for tipping instead of monero
This could be just a NIP away. Nostr is open to that addition.
Exactly. Few communities cope harder than Monero maxis
Cope harder. “If you want it, build it.” If people want it, they will use it.
It's already being built by tannerdsilva and a few others, but will take time. Nostr is very bitcoin centric atm so it shouldnt be surprising that their is a lag in development from Monero community on Nostr. I think a lot of Monero users appreciate Nostr as a protocol and see it's value.
Cool! I do appreciate that monero users and bitcoiners generally have a common understanding of the value of open source and privacy. As for the rest of it, to each their own. But if if you want it, build it. 🤝 Don’t complain like the guy above you
Quality over quantity. Both #[5] and #nostr equals quality 🤙🏼💜
1) People carrying their bad habits from Twitter over here....
Difference between “journalism“ and “entertainment“?
people use it like other platforms. they think all social media is interchangeable. this is a profound mistake. they'd like damus a lot if they understood the actual reasons the platforms differ - but there's too much programmer jargon which inhibits your average person from accessing the reality of what is actually happening on each platform. someone brace should write a universal, basic, simple non-programmer article or series of articles comparing and contrasting real life reasons (not crossworded) to consider the differences and similarities of social media platforms.
Being vehemently “anti-algorithm” is a great example of it.
Marketing Nostr as being free from monetizing users is another. (Relays are sitting on a gold mine. They will absolutely monetize on it)
maybe the answer is simpler - "Walled Gardens" are businesses... nostr is all made by hobbyists and no one even bothered to think about how to make a business out of this yet, since peeps like nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m just pick up the tab?
Good point, Bitcoin and nostr are community lead.
Big tech and cryptos are businesses.
Most people are used to their lives subject to businesses and government, but most people don't like it any more than they like signing up with the selective service.
If you prefer to use public transportation and refuse to own a car, even when its within your means, then walled gardens are for you.
If you prefer freedom, eventually you will learn how to drive a car.
Relays will eventually NEED to find a way to make money off of the data they’re holding. Just need to find buyers.
Users will then start using encrypted data a lot more to protect against it. Relays will then need to charge for encrypted data (because they can’t monetize on that)
agree, though most people care not about either their privacy or security or sovereignty or truth
and have been made addicted to free shit over agency, comforts over conscience and mindless entertainment over truth
we've all been made comfortably numb
the challenge is to build business that emancipates the battery chickens that we've become yet is also useful and attractive to us with feeble legs and fat breasts
nostr is more of a cold-turkey boot-camp experience right now
I think it is natural for Relays and Users to have an antagonistic relationship. Similar in to Bitcoin, the game theory should be embraced.
Relays have to monetize user data? Okay, users start encrypting their data.
Users encrypt their data? Okay, relays charge money to post encrypted data.
i agree it's natural that every client-service relationship contains an element of the juxtaposed objectives, but they must be balanced by the low-time preference belief in the good of long-term sustainable symbiotic relationships or else we're kinda doomed
so i think the relays / businesses that will win are those that offer better service and establish long-term credibility even at the expense of short-term gain that might have been possible through adversarial pursuits
Sure, but any short term good will has to also be in the hopes of long term bigger profit.
Similar to bitcoin, anything that relies on good will alone is not sustainable. It’s also why I find the idea of zaps unhelpful.
It’s like thinking that adding a mural in the ghetto is going to revitalize their economy. Economies can’t run on good vibes!
Not actually advocating good-will, just a kind of symbiosis in the form of low-time preference with common hope of good long term outcomes.
Any short term 'good will' would actually just be more like bets on longer term good outcomes.
It's the inverse of what we see in places with low hope (low confidence in the future), where hit-and-run is a better bet than stay-and-grow.
Re: zaps - i think of them as baby steps towards the idea of paying-for-value, they're not a silver bullet, but they hopefully lay the experiential foundation for #value4value commerce.
your walled gardens don’t have more engagement. they have more people. because the low quality humans who run them, make it easy to get in, but hard to get out.
they also prey on peoples trust and weaknesses to do this, while calling it “good” business.
Ignorance = bliss
& the last few years has thrown the Overton Window model out the window… no? (Pun was honestly not intentional here 😂)
dude is a troll. that’s it and that’s all.
Maybe because this audience is more discerning lmao
Sure if you want people to manipulate go to the platform that manipulates people, of course that makes sense
If you are optimizing for eyeballs, you will get eyeballs. Enjoy.
Any good reason for mocking people here? Most here are builders that fully understand nostr is not about selling cognitive crack to teenagers.
Depends on the rest of your funnel?
Based on absurdly small sample size half my course attendees found out through nostr and the other half twitter.
I also had a recent uptick in book sales which I think was triggered here.
But in both cases the target audience is likely to be on Nostr.
Which reminds me I should at least TRY to announce stuff on Mastodon...
Yes! If you’re building products and services targeted squarely at the very specific niche that’s on nostr, then it makes sense to promote it here!
Udi who?
of course there are many types of engagement.
Everybody loves Jack here and positively comment on his posts.
You are, to say the less, a controversial person and people here tend not to seek extenuating and useless fight.
Maybe other platform are more prone to litigious engagement?
Agree. You should def leave and never come back!
Is it an either / or situation? You have multiple pools of listeners, with an unknown amount of overlap. You can post your messages to each pool and reach people that would not otherwise receive your message.
I don't know why people feel like Nostr must compete with Threads, the Fediverse, Bluesky / AT Protocol, Twitter, Instagram, Gab, etc. It stands on its own and needs no comparison to establish its value. So do most of the others.
I have less followers on nostr but I get more engagement here. It’s hard for me to know how many users are bots or just inactive on twitter.
I had hoped that the last time we discussed this that you understood, this isn't the platform if you are chasing engagement, maybe it will be but it wasn't 2 weeks ago and that hasn't changed as of yet. Considering the current pace of development, you are getting to play the alpha build where you can run around and fight a couple randomly spawned NPCs, but crafting requires GMs to spawn you resources and orgrimar still isn't on the map. A beta would be feature complete and working on bug fixes, we are like, maybe 1/3 of the way there.
I'm not worried about nostrs future; people post twitter links and I can't even see the content because I don't have an account, whereas I can post links from nostr and anyone can see them. Now influencers that have built parallel infrastructure and sought alternative platforms want to go back to twitter because elon is in charge and they are getting paid, somehow forgetting why they wanted options in the first place, and putting themselves in financial jeopardy when the inevitable rug pull comes. I on the other hand will enjoy the developments on nostr as they come, and when twitter is cutting influencer checks because ad revenue is down, I'll be selling my services on civ kit for non-kyc bitcoin.
Bitcoin was started on a little known email list, it has a serious physical cost to engage in and use, it carries risk from factors like shady exchanges and improper key management. Nostr, by comparison, has very good prospects.
Maybe don't think #nostr is only a social media platforms, it's a protocol transforming how future applications are communicating. Social media is just one small use case. Maybe it wasn't the best use case to start with and compete against these behemoths, but for sure it was one of the easiest. Right now people don't care how their personal data is used and have no sense for privacy, therefore they are using highly centralized platforms. This will change.
stop thinking about product and going to market. let it grow organically.
There's a use here for this that is beyond.
I'll mute you idiot
He is a damn mother fucker.
Anyone that listened to you is totally rekted completely annihilated.
You're a total loser but I would say that your followers are the biggest suckers
Guy with 3,000 followers on Nostr made a short film and shared it a few days ago
Got a thousand likes, 500 retweets, 200 replies... and EARNED 7.2 million sats from 600 #zaps
Most people that "engaged" with his content were not even using the same app
Weren't you leaving to find some Ponzi victims on threads?
Everytime i read your post, you are unhappy about something here but like to spend time here anyway be it Bitcoin Maxi. Nostr etc :)
Is there somebody that nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m needs engagement from? I doubt there are many people whom don't know who he is.
you have to wonder how taxing counting nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m's followers is on relays, and is there a better way #asknostr #nostr
You are human garbage 🤣
Yer all grown up 🥲
⚡️🔥
We came to Nostr to escape from manipulative algorithms and engagement farming so I take this as a win.
Easier to find victims for your scams on threads too
The real engagement nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m gets on Nostr is more fulfilling than the caged Zukerberg prison fake engagement you get on threads.
Nostr is like Bitcoin. Build it and they will come when they need it. The way the world is shaping up plenty of people are going need a censorship resistant platform and the ability to own your social media speech/following and not get rugged by a corporation.
sent you a follow request on threads 😇
Oh, so you’re an e-beggar🤡 Got it.
Because Facebook woke normies are more receptive to what you have to say?
Know your audience I guess.