Nostr feels fragmented or something. I used to see people post here but haven’t seen them in a while. Then later someone shares a screenshot of some community chat and those people are hanging out there. Some are in olas, some in community chats, or who knows where. I get that this is a feature not a bug, but it’s feeling more empty the more side use cases appear. Then we get relays where only followers can see our notes but it has to use some special nip and your client may not even support it. So you gotta switch OSes to use it. So you’re cutting your broadcast even further. To outsiders there won’t be any content …

I thought Nostr is supposed to be great for discovery but it’s shaping up more like a segmented single identity protocol. Interesting but way less fun than a unified discovery layer.

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I think this is the fuck around phase, where interoperability decreases. However, as the protocol matured being interoperable becomes more and more important.

I want to see more interoperability and ability to discover “the rest of Nostr” through this primary ways of communicating. But it seems like with communities (when that matures), it’ll become even more fragmented.

nostr:npub149p5act9a5qm9p47elp8w8h3wpwn2d7s2xecw2ygnrxqp4wgsklq9g722q has interesting ideas on community discovery.

Yeah I recall reading his thoughts on that - interesting indeed.

I think it would be good enough to have interoperability withing the same usecases.

Meaning most social "one-to-all" being interoperable.l among themselves.

And most social "one-to-few" being interoperable among themselves.

and so on

Yeah. We still have some events not rendering in some clients. A bit frustrating at times. Relay implementations seem all over the place.

Yes, relays implementations are completely all over the place. I feel there are just too many things to support, too many kinds.

I guess this is one of the dark side of the fact that nostr primary funding is grants. Because the grants are mostly focused on improving and expanding nostr, this means exploring new use-cases without market validation, which means an explosion in the number of kinds and stuff, while the reality is that what most people use are notes and replies.

Yeah.. I’m not complaining (hard), more of an observation and perhaps some thoughts of caution. Hopefully it’s a very positive situation.

neither am I. I think in time the protocol matures, but now it's the fun stage of fucking around to find out.

Spot on 💯

I see the same line of thinking among the Local-first software community.

i.e. Servers around the same type of applications should just be Sync Engines

Relays are literally Sync Services too but only if they’re implemented with similar App use cases in mind.

me and nostr:nprofile1qydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpzemhxue69uhk6mr9dd6juun9v9k8jtnvdakz7qpql5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqsc0mm8qand nostr:nprofile1qydhwumn8ghj7amgv4shgtngv9c8q7t5v9mx2unw9e3k7tcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszxmhwden5te0w35x2en0wfjhxapwdehhxarjxyhxxmmd9uq32amnwvaz7tm5v4ehgtnjv4skc7fwd3hkctcqyqrgnh6cg75dxdmgjtdzjc3d0s8ac8h3jk85h3z8rkgfv64paj5lyensz6c and nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3eryvfwvdhk6tcpzemhxue69uhkyetkduhxummnw3erztnrdakj7qpq0npj3gydmv40m70ehemmal6vsdyfl7tewgvz043g54p0x23y0s8qrdgfzw and nostr:nprofile1qyt8wumn8ghj76rfwd6zumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wdmksetjv5hxxmmd9uqsuamnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0dshsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjme0qyv8wumn8ghj7mnxv33zumn0wdmksetjv5hxxmmd9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd3skuep0qqs99d9qw67th0wr5xh05de4s9k0wjvnkxudkgptq8yg83vtulad30gdx66cm are all working in a loose alliance, with increasingly sophisticated tools to coordinate our work and communication, to improve interoperability by fixing the glaring and gaping problems of the current protocol specification scheme that the... rockstar devs, and their in group, and their big funder who is lost in nostalgia for the olden days of early web2 socials (you know who i mean) and funding "open" twitter which is increasingly toxic due to the influence of especiall the notion of "trending feed" which is mostly promulgated by #primal

nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszxmhwden5te0w35x2en0wfjhxapwdehhxarjxyhxxmmd9uq3vamnwvaz7tmwd9jkctnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qyv8wumn8ghj77npwpkxzc3wdehhxarjxyhxxmmd9uqzp22rfmsktmgpk2rtan7zwu00zuzax5maq5dnsu5g3xxvqr2u3pd7ryxvpq also is connected to this group and what we want is to make an archaepelago, not a metropolis, of private, affinity, topic and organisational nodes, islands in the net, eliminating the friction (lowering the cost of transit between the islands) while increasing the privacy and security of these groups from infiltration and propaganda attacks.

Interesting. Look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.

I agree. Only been here a few months, but feels like the engagement has been falling off a cliff. At least for me.

Not just you. I noticed it dropped off a while ago. I don’t care for “engagement “ for engagement sake but it’s nice to have more conversations.

Yes, true. I use the term engagement in a general sense.

funny, mine feels up

Yes...feels empty. I agree.

Are you saying that you have been seeing followers drop off

I don’t know about follower counts.. I have not checked my follower count in so long .. wish to never see it frankly. But just overall assessment of activity

Oh okay 👌🏼, that's weird because I see a ton of activity on my end

Agreed, for “normal” accounts this have no use, for expanding Nostr it’s juat a bad idea to have those islands of content. Just tribes becoming more tribales. Closeness in an open protocol.

I’m not sure how I feel about that. On one hand a specific use case is nice for people who are looking just for that … but on the other hand it does have that alienating effect at this point since the user base is still fairly small

last week, noticed a slight drop every day since last week. 100% agree.

Aun así yo lo uso todos los días y en diferentes clientes

Probably 10% of the initial people I used to engage with are “gone”…they haven’t posted in months.

I genuinely hope they are ok (at least two of them travel and are fairly nomadic)

That being said; while I used to gain at least 1-3 followers a day and likewise discover a few new a day that I’d follow, that has almost come to a halt.

Periodically I’ll switch back and forth between YakiHonne (my primary client) and Primal just to make sure the feeds are aligned and it’s not a user error issue…

But for the most part, I do feel it has become a bit of a relational ghost town for me.

I’m even following my own early advice that since there is limited discovery tools on Nostr, the way to grow is by commenting on other’s notes and relationally engaging with them.

I’m reminded of this nostr:note1ftxt996ra03hjtzwe7q4pfc4walp0fw5eamlv9aw6w93xs39qvgqq5ysqp

It’s a great reminder. I probably fail at this too. Will try to do better.

Maybe all of us are turning into lurkers and forgetting to respond :)

Not gonna lie, I have to schedule intentional “relationship” time (Nostr) on my calendar.

Otherwise it gets left till the end of the night when I’m winding down and I do find myself mindlessly scrolling at that point.

So yea, even Nostr as a “social media” platform has similar lurker tendencies as you mention.

I also think there may be a certain initial allure of Nostr. It’s newish, shiny, aligns with people’s core beliefs…so they go theough the hassle of getting on Nostr and figuring out WTH a relay is etc…

(As a side note, this is why I typical point people to Primal as their first client as the barrier to entry is super low and in line with people’s current onboarding flow of KYC/email provision)

But…then the perceived fun stops and the #proofofwork begins.

People are inherently lazy. They will take the path of least resistance when presented the opportunity.

We’ve been trained to think that way.

And so retraining the inner workings of humans is a hard thing to do.

That’s why Rockefeller started with kids…easier to train a kid than an adult.

#pow

Great note. Primal tells me there are 8 replies but don’t see them which i guess is making your point

Yikes 😬

true dat

It would probably behoove a client dev to make a simple kind usage list for each Npub profile.

Lots of kind 34236 events? Probably find their stuff on Olas. 30311? Probably Corny chat or zap.stream. and so on. Or maybe a self selected badge that links to open that specified client.

IDK, just spitballin'

What do you think? nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpzamhxue69uhhv6t5daezumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcscpyug master of all features?

Interesting thought

That's the goal for nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgzqtdq0. The store itself knows you, which people you follow, and can offer the apps those people are using the most so that you can install and see them.

Seen this on Lens, devs build out, people flock to the new dApp, older one gets less traffic so people leave platform altogether or post less frequent. I am on several Nostr dApps and I see the same few . Also see a lot of different people on some and not on others. Confusing. I am sticking with Nostr and Olas mostly but I do like YakiHonne too. Supported/Paid for Damus and if Primal had it , I think I did that too.

The people you used to talk to are talking to the people you muted.

I support that feature

yeah, i think he may be near the number one muter on the network, and now he fails to ponder whether that might be what is actually happening

This thread is pretty typical. It most be missing half the notes, in his feed, since we're all muted. 🤪

That's why he's only responding to a couple of people.

To be fair, the communities that I've joined and have been testing were all migrated from telegram

But ive also noticed what your talking about. For myself I usually don't respond to posts unless tagged in them.

I'm not sure why, but I think the lack of an algorithm means that I end up seeing posts that are interesting, but nothing that really gets me mad or what makes me want to respond.

Not mad enough?!

This is madness!! 😡

I have started to notice this as well.

We’re early… don’t know how this protocol will pan out but I’m bullish 🫡

I agree.

I am navigating between nostr:npub1yzvxlwp7wawed5vgefwfmugvumtp8c8t0etk3g8sky4n0ndvyxesnxrf8q and nostr:npub10lasj0tuxuweddwhmucwnm6l458flnu6mqwk38meaxs5matjg4ssac0ywa because I cannot see the event published on Olas. Seems like that platform does its own things….

what do you mean? what type of event are you not seeing in Olas?

I don’t see the events published by Olas in Yakihonne.

But more importantly I cannot connect my wallet with NWC from my nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm Hub.

What do you see when you try to connect it? on what version are you?

I’m on 0.2.0 (313) TF iOS.

It connects on Alby side, but on Olas I see “saving” and it just rotates without saving anything…

It still doesn’t connect to Alby Hub via NWC.

Now it says it didn’t receive a connection from wallet and it retries in a loop.

Would have been good to have it fixed instead of adding another connnection to Primal…

I think the fragmentation, although I hardly feel it, is good.

If nostr hit 100k daily actives with only twitter-like clients popping off, it would've lost some of the community feeling that a lot of us enjoy.

Nostr is excelling at being a place where you can curate an extremely customizable social experience.

Unified discovery layer makes sense too tho, or maybe linktree adapts to fix this.

I agree with this as well. Love NOSTR, love seeing all the DEV work and etc going on but lets face it, it can be one big echo chamber with the same message repeated everyday. I try and follow new people all the time but as you said, I'm sure there are groups of people gathering together to themselves eventually not paying attention to the general broader user base of NOSTR and it can get stale at times.

the trending posts on nostr are all people saying gm, someone who forgot to turn their oven on while cooking & this post complaining about nostr

When you have only a small amount of users, you'll get that feeling as new apps and use cases pop-up. If Nostr were at a critical mass and users will using all platforms equally, then it would most likely be immeasurable or unnoticed. However, since we are few, when some of those few use a different app outside of kind 1 content, you notice their absence. This is all fixed at scale.

For me it's how notes are shown. Different apps show notes in different ways. Some will only show you their posts, others mix in replies or separate those in a separate tab. Some show the replies on the main tab, but will also show the what their replying to for context, and I think there was one where it only show replies if someone you follow if it's a reply to someone else you're following.

It probably also depends on the number of people someone is following. If you aren't following many people (single to double digits), you'll see everything they post. Once you start getting into hundreds and thousands of people you are following then you'll only see those that are loudest / posting all the time and those that only post occasionally will get lost in the noise.