Wouldnโt replying an emoji be just as effective and probably quicker? This is overly complicated and messy. Replies are already a great solution for when more emotion needs to be expressed.
Discussion
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From a protocol perspective, theyโre almost identical anyway. A reaction note uses the โcontentโ field to contain the single character reaction, usually โ+โ or โ๐โ, but Iโve seen others like โ๐พโ. The difference is that reactions use kind=7 whereas regular notes are of kind=1.
A nostr client could choose to interpret and display single-character/emoji reply notes (kind=1) as reactions. This would allow the full range of emoji reactions while adding some friction (takes more steps to post an emoji reply than just tapping a reaction button).
Yet another way to abuse it by the client. If Damus chose to display like as skull, that would definitely be a wrong signal at extreme. So, I say note with sig is way to go. User types in the content, and that is what is displayed! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Removing likes to foster engagement, not encourage more zaps
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Maybe the UI should show other users your preference. So for example, when Iโm looking at your post today, I see a like button and a zap button. Somewhere in the UI it could show me that you donโt see reactions (likes) and prefer content responses.
I donโt know what this UI would look like. It could be a ๐ค emoji inside of a ๐ซ or something to show that I can still do the like, but that you wonโt see it.
This is just an idea, but you see where Iโm going. Your preference for a content response is reasonable. As is my preference to just tap the like button. Whats missing in the UI is a way for you to communicate your preference without inhibiting my range of actions.
Wet solid analytics mate
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Very good idea, It solves everything and allows everyone to experience it in their own way ๐
On the other hand, nice to meet you ๐
I am curious, what would you get out of a reaction to the post that nobody but you can see? Will simple โackโ I saw it and consider it read be the solution? ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
It will be seen by everyone who doesn't have that enabled. And also to know what you have liked before ๐
Then maybe โackโ is it? What if I do not what to have likes display together with my note? What if I donโt want people to sway others by their โreactionsโ? Should I have that choice? Or should you have a choice to affect my content? ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
> What if I do not what to have likes display together with my note?
In the abstract, it is impossible to prevent your usersโ clients from asking relays for reactions and aggregating the results. Uncensorability is a foundational principle of the nostr protocol.
It is possible for client implementations to honor your preference and hide that information from other users. Damus is trying this out with OnlyZaps.
Users who donโt want to have that information hidden can choose to use other clients which do not censor reactions.
Thatโs my point. Having any sort of reactions will impact how itโs perceived and read by other users. I am saying that presence of reactions that are prone to manipulation and misinterpretation is not a good thing. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
So you are questioning the method we have now to mute trolls, they still affect your content, and that's fine. It's up to each of us, (the others) whether this user is a troll to us or not. Applying this to likes, in my point of view, is a winning option.
If itโs only me: I could be using the reaction function as a bookmark. Later, I can browse my likes to read things I had set aside. Or maybe later I want to search through my liked notes to remember some topic or dredge up an old link.
Good point. I used to do that on the Twitter app before they fixed the timeline auto refresh/jump. Maybe bookmark should be where likes used to be in Damus.
Probably would, exploring what couldsโฆ it really is only a 2 x 2D data points that can display fullest of human emotions.
#[3]โ made the point that emoji can translate differently across culture
This could allow to separate the encoding of the emotion from the display (visual representation) with each culture decoding it itโs own way and users being able to chose via plug in how they wish to decode it
With two quick swipes you could say, this note surprises me and makes me angry! And so onโฆ
โโฆwith each culture decoding it itโs own way and users being able to chose via plug in how they wish to decode it.โ
We already have words. This just reinvents them. ๐
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Again, just exploring what could. Words are not 2 data points on a 2 dimensional surface you could broadcast in under 3 seconds.
Yo
โฆ to let someone know exactly how you feel.
1 or two times x:y coordinates, thatโs it. To display fullest emotions known to mankind. There must be some potential hiding there somewhere
It would be overly complicated for what youโd get out of it. How often do you check to see if who all reacted to a post and which which reaction they used? We already have ๐ค and โค๏ธ reactions combined into one list but you only see that if you look at the reactions on that post. Comments are much more efficient for the recipient.
For disclosure, I wish for a future where I can build my simple algo in the client to create โwhat have I missedโ feeds that I can control.
Likes would be useful to keep to give another data input to the algo.
Donโt put too much weight on these ideas I throw out, they just pure exploration. By discussing them with other it helps me to better explore them, collective thinking out loud.
But if I am having a shitty day and I could quickly filter out all the posts that made people angry from my custom algo feed, Iโd love to be able to so
The challenge then becomes spam. On Twitter, for instance, someone could go buy hundreds or thousands of likes on a tweet through a 3rd party service. I saw someone do this last year and they won 1M sats in a meme contest because the winner was chosen solely on number of likes. ๐ When likes cost nothing or very little, they become an easy target. When something that costs very little becomes an input into an algorithm that could get your attention, now it becomes an attractive target. An easy attractive way to put information in front of lots of peopleโs eyes with the hopes of manipulating some into falling for scams, believing fake news, etc etc etc.
Since when forcing people to do something actually works? #[6]โ is not the only client out there
It has never worked, well sometimes it has ๐คฃ.
But I agree, there are more customers, but it's a pity that the most important nostr client (and the one that works best too ๐) makes these changes without generating a debate first.
My humble opinion, I open the umbrella โ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธ๐ ๐ โ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธโ๏ธ
We are still forgetting that itโs not in release. Itโs a test, nobody is forced to do anything! App Store version is still available! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
By you turning on zaps only, that is forcing me ๐ to zap โก๏ธ
Feel free not to zap me, comment, sure. If this will make you feel better, Iโll remove my LN url just for you. Iโve done it before and Iโll do it again, just say a word! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
That sounds a lot like an ultimatum ๐
Not really, at least not intentionally. What I am trying to say is, everyone should have a choice (to an extent) and we should all respect it! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
All good. We just have to agree to disagree. ๐
Thatโs the way! I am glad we can actually talk as civilized people! Love you and this place! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซ๐๐๐
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It will be interesting to see what happens when there are more iOS native nostr client choices. If thereโs a client that lets me keep using likes, and Damus censors me, then Iโm switching.
There are already alternatives, look:
Yeah, maybe I should switch to Test Flight. Though if I did, my likes would already be censored. ๐
Of course, the debate is on the testflight version, that's for sure ๐
Also the word "force" is very harsh, I mean simply, couldn't it work the same as the current "mute" feature?
In fact I can make a quick shell script now to generate millions of new npubs and post โlikeโ note to any note. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Yes also with comments, or zaps of 1 sat. Pow is the solution for that ๐
POW on mobile is a literal killer feature. There are places for it, but I think this is not it. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
You think? I didn't have that on my radar, why?
It will use more compute and hence more emu, which results in your phone dying quickly! ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
But only for events, so if you are not fishcake or quentin ๐คฃ๐คฃ and you only create ยฟ10? events a day should be affordable for a phone, i think
Every milliwatt counts. The cheaper you make it the more abuse you will have. ๐ถ๐พ๐ซก
Agreed, also, a troller doesnt care about pow. Why would he? He can just run a heavier processing unit to bypass the pow.
The aim is to make it difficult for them, but I think the debate now is not about PoW but about yesterday's update.
Nice to meet you ๐
Nice to meet you too. What was the new update about? Something with zaps only right?
The point of PoW in the context of nostr posts is to make it costly to spam. Trolls have budgets just like everyone else.
NIP-13 describes how PoW can be delegated specifically to address the problem of low-power devices (mobile). One could pay a miner to mine a noteโs PoW.
You can do this on https://www.sats4likes.com
Iโve used it to pump a few things on Twitter. The whole thing is manipulated so I have no problem manipulating it to my ends and doing so with Sats to a #Nostrich dev.
Absolutely, then we need to address trustworthiness through a aggregated and uncoruptable trustworthiness rating model, just typing this feels Orwellian but methods of addressing trustworthiness rating at least for commercial exchanges at protocol level could be interesting Trust is hard to earn over time, and easily lost.