Gm ☕️🤙 I continue to see comments suggesting that having the option to turn off “likes” is equivalent to demanding #zaps and making #Nostr “all about money.” Do some of you truly think that? Honest question.
Discussion
Was there any similar drama when twitter allowed to close comments?
Idk but I wouldn’t be surprised 😂
I don’t think so.
When was the last time people experimented with incentives of different kinds in these kinds of communications? A decade?
Never know if we don’t try.
If they truly think that then they don't understand value for value or proof of work.
It has shocked me to see that side of the argument.
Likes are a relic of the old system which was designed to inform the algorithm more than the flesh and ₿lood users.
And I think that’s where the debate SHOULD be, discussing the pros and cons of likes. But I have seen critics saying things like “I guess money is the only thing that matters here.” That is a bold assumption and leap of logic.
Also can we just acknowledge for a second that the value that most people zap (21 sats, often less) is worth just over half a penny. If wanting to turn off likes was really just a cash grab then it’s kind of a lousy one.
?cid=2154d3d795iebayezhw4yyfcetyn9kqgd2lcnua4zl7rpeu6&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Considering you can set the default zap amount to “1 sat” and spend all day everyday zapping and still cost less than a Twitter monthly subscription. I’d say go complain to Twitter lol.
Lol 😂💯
But if you see a post and like it enough to “like” but don’t like it enough to zap, do you even like it? 🤔
As you've said, it's an option as in optional and anyone who doen't want to disable likes can have those enabled.
Me, I have the like button set to disabled on Semisol's Snort fork with a 1 sat default zap amount set to "like" notes.
It’s even been the default setting (“reactions off”) on main Snort since end of January but nobody batted an eye over it until now 🤷♂️
i missed this whole debate
feels good man
lol 🤙 been an interesting one for sure
Couldn’t give less of a fuck what people on about although that means more meme wars. I do like meme wars 😂
I think I’ll just take a break until all this is over. Tschüss 👋
no, likes have no place in nostr… if you want likes go use greenpeace metaverse
😂 noted 💜🤙
I understand the argument and you certainly will keep anti-capitalists away with #onlyZaps.
In nostr, likes and zaps are gigantic +500B messages to add 4B of data (utf8 or amount) to a message. That's why many were against likes even before zaps were a thing. And then there is those who find a like too cheap to even show. Vanity stinks.
Zaps at least carry value, so it's less cheap to zap than to like but if you have no money to spare, zap one sat. It's as good as free. But anti-caps won't do that ever.
I think that is the fair side of the debate. What, if anything, is the value/purpose of likes. But accusing people of being greedy or all about money for disabling them is a false assumption and I’ve seen some people making that assumption.
For anti-caps, mentioning money's utility for anything at all is "wrong" and "you reduce all to its monetary value".
I think anti-caps are not necessarily what client devs should cater to but with onlyZaps you repel not only the anti-caps but also the shitcoiners that favor their respective flavor of shitcoinery at least if it doesn't support lightning. And of course you repel all those who think that both Bitcoin and crypto are a huge ponzi.
I get it, nostr was born out of Bitcoin so to say but it was always a big priority to not push Bitcoin into nostr users' faces on a protocol level.
😳…well…that’s a silly argument…
I support freedom and dgaf if people want to be #ZapsOnly vs 🤙.
Personally I like using the 🤙 as a personal check mark for things I’ve zapped as damus doesn’t reflect it at times and occasionally as an acknowledgment that I saw something that doesn’t require a reply.
😭 I just want the 💜🫂⚡️🤙🧡🏴☠️in this place back.
* #OnlyZaps
shit…that’s embarrassing
I’ve seen more than one person make comments like “it’s all about money here” or “I guess we know why some people are here.” And these are active people on Nostr, not bots or people with just a couple followers. It’s a good and fair debate to discuss pros and cons of likes. But making assumptions about people’s motivations isn’t cool and it only serves to further drive division. 🫂
people need to give less fucks about the actions of other people and 🫂
To play devils advocate…I did hear that some folks were complaining about the ⚡️ amounts they were receiving after implementing #OnlyZaps was lower than what they used to receive.
I didn’t hear it, but that could explain this line of thinking to those that hold the notion that some are “all about money here.” 🤷♂️
I think that discussion is a more nuanced one. It would be poor form and inconsiderate of anyone to simply publicly complain that others aren’t zapping them “enough.” It would sound greedy. But I think that’s very different from discussing/exploring what it means to adequately give value back when you receive value on Nostr. I’ve said quite a bit on here in the past week about my thoughts on that, and had some really good discussion with a few who engaged.
There’s no single right answer to that question because we are all from different backgrounds, different cultures, different economic environments/situations, etc. But I think some fundamental principles we all must consider when deciding how to give value back can be shared more widely, and those are worth considering and questioning publicly.
Lastly, I have openly said I don’t want single sat zaps because they spam my wallet/phone notifications and I would rather someone scroll by and do nothing than send me a single zap. 😂
More discussion and questioning of ideas and concepts, and less assuming and judgment of people, is what we need to continue here in these things. A lot of good people here, and jumping to conclusions about motives can turn otherwise good people against each other for no reason. 💜🫂
Amen ⚡️ + sorry I can’t help it⚡️.
😂🤣
I’ve always used the 🤙🏻 as a way to communicate with others…to me it’s a “I’m here, I see/ hear you, and I like what you said .” I zap when I fill compelled to and try to zap daily.
I have found that now that “only zaps” has been enabled, I will review the pfp to see if someone has the “only zaps” designation and if they do, I don’t hit the 🤙🏻 because they won’t see it anyway. Most of the time, I just scroll on. Sometimes I will reply with a note.
While we are all early in this new experiment, I kind of see it as a division where the high profile nostriches don’t want to be bothered by a notification, they only want a zap. If that’s the case, I’m cool with that. I’ve told some newcomers to this space, not everyone will interact with you here so don’t get your feelings hurt if you someone doesn’t respond to you.
Hopefully none of my “only zap” followers don’t take this the wrong way, I mean no disrespect and love you all. I thank you for the knowledge you share here and if you see my notes, hopefully you get something from them as well. 🤙🏻💜🧡⚡️
🫂
“I kind of see it as a division where the high profile nostriches don’t want to be bothered by a notification, they only want a zap.”
Do you not hear how this statement is judgmental and presumptive on your part? Please take that as kindly as I can say it, but I’m going to be very direct in calling out that bullshit. This is not a “high profile” vs “others” division in preference. For one, it’s a TestFlight feature, not the whole Damus user base. I’ve seen many users with it enabled and many without. Don’t make this something it’s not. And presuming someone only wants a zap because they turned off likes is a bold accusation. For a 100 posts you may press “like” on, I would prefer this reply and discussion over them. If I don’t want to see likes it doesn’t mean I only want zaps.
Those last 3 sentences. Wow 🎯🎯
Great nuanced take
Not trying to be judgmental friend. I just sharing thoughts on the subject. 🤙🏻🫂
Appreciate the clarification 💜 I’ve seen some comments from others over the past couple days that have been very judgmental in their tone. I’ve ignored them until today, but I really think those ideas are dangerously divisive and need to be called out. It’s what promoted the meme and original post in this thread, so I’m probably more sensitive to comments that sound like that at the moment. 🫂🤙
*prompted
It’s all good my friend. 🫂💜🧡🤙🏻
Hey there's been a cool update on Iris today that sets a healthy example. Now we can simply toggle Likes, zaps and reposts. Although not very granular, I think it's a good way to go. I realise that this isn't new either in philosophy or implementation but it does democratise the user experience further. If all this stuff is optional then each user can have #nostr the way they want it. Simples.
I don’t use onlyzaps to elicit a desired response from someone else. I use it to control my own poor behaviour.
I just lean into my poor behaviors 🤙
When you have as many as I do, you need to employ tech to give yourself boundaries 🤣
🤣I have to be responsible at work for some reason so when I’m off so are all bets and the pendulum breaks in the other direction 😜
Me too. I mean, I get to act more crazy than you at work, but I still have to reign it in. My students can only handle so much!
Forgot you were teach for a moment. With this in mind I actually have a suspicion you’re more professional than I am at the fiat mine.
For me it’s been an experiment and and will continue to be. As a serial “liker” how will I ever know how I might behave without them if I don’t even give myself that chance? 🤷♂️ Then the side adventure topics that pop up make it all the more interesting. 💜
Yes. That’s where I’m at as well.
That’s an interesting point.
I haven’t been on hardly any social media in a decade so really have minimal experience with likes and whatnot, but hardly ever 🤙 without ⚡️ing bc I didn’t really see the point as a novice at this.
Like you said different experiences and backgrounds makes this a fun experiment.
I’m still trying to figure out why it’s such a touchy subject. It’s all about having the choice and that’s the beauty of this protocol.
I think a lot of it comes down to people making faulty assumptions about why someone would turn it on.
💯💯💯 assumptions and misunderstandings are a big part of it. But don’t doubt the dopamine withdrawals…
Curious if those that were complaining about lower zap amounts were those with #onlyzaps enabled or was it those without it?
I heard it was folks with onlyzaps enabled 🤷♂️
I think I saw that mentioned in one thread but it was more a conversation about what they were observing after turning it on and not really complaining about it. I can say that my default zap amount has dated the same and I am definitely zapping more. Perhaps some that had a higher default before felt a need to lower with an increase in outbound zaps.
We even discussed that some on Plebchain Radio last week. There are some who have replaced likes with zaps. There were some who had already done that prior to this toggle setting. There are others, like me, who have not replaced likes with zaps. The zap feature didn’t appear last week. We’ve all had that option to zap 21 sats or whatever in place of using the like button. This change simply gave the option to remove the like from the UI/UX for those who didn’t want to use it any longer. I would rather send you a 5000K sat zap for something that was really great, than a handful of 21 sats here and there for every single thing you post. Does the latter just incentive posting bulk nonsense posts, stolen memes, pics, etc? Instead I would rather zap you really well for something you did that meaningfully added to my day.
Id like this practice, but I personally miss a lot of stuff that is ⚡️ nuke worthy thanks to the fiat gig and just life so I tend to trend microzap heavy at times.
Why not both ways. 🤷🏻 🪩
My only frustration is when #onlyzaps are on and the tap2zap amount is 1000 sats and you can’t change the amount in WOS. I don’t mind sending large zaps but it’s kinda disheartening to feel like I have to zap so many sats or go through the whole process of creating an amount… I sometimes end up disengaging because a simple Shaka would suffice.
I think it’s a reach to say that #nostr is all about money in any capacity. That’s just a sign that they don’t understand value.
I do appreciate the option of being able to Shaka and/or zap, though.
🤙 in plebstr you just wont see it 🤣
🤣🤙🏼💜⚡️🤷🏻
21 sats is about $0.01 sooo what’s the problem? #zaps #nostr
I just zapped and liked you and theres nothing you can do about it 🤓
I haven't seen those types of comments.
I like the existence of zaps & that it is getting Bitcoiners to use their bitcoin as a MoE. I've been a little surprised at how many haven't made that step yet. It takes a little effort to make that leap & I'm glad it's providing an incentive to do so. It made me explore other ways to acquire non kyc sats.
At the end of the day nobody can force you to zap & only your client can stop you from liking notes. If your client removes that ability from you, you can always change clients.
Well said. And I’m encouraged by the replies here that lead me to think the comments I saw are the minority, and not the majority mindset.